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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
    
 | | 03/20/2006 10:58 AM |
| Having played, and lost to a Wardrummer band this past weekend, I have to say, for 19 points, that thing is so broken. I rarely use that term to describe anything. I'll point out figures I think are overcosted all day long, but rarely say something is undercosted. My gods is that thing a terror.
Even if you build a mostly fearless band against it, it can use the +4 on saves to ensure it's pieces remain on the board come morale.
For 19 points, I could see that thing adding or deducting +/- 2, but 4 is so broken. | | | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 11:10 AM |
| Well, unlike the Drider, this guy doesnt slow gameplay. And it being broken? That status is known to shift around.
Axe Sister, Displacer Beast, LSD, Greycloak, Orc Champ, HEBI, Beholder, Gith Monk, Helmed Horror, etc...
I've seen all of those pieces claimed being broken, but the metagame has shifted time and time again. I wouldnt be suprised if after WotDQ, Wardrummer isnt all that hot anymore.
But then again, I'd be worried if a certain figure is included in all warbands of a certain faction, if after a set or two we still see a Orc Wardrummer in every single CE army, then I'll worry. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
240 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 11:14 AM |
| | Maybe the Wizard Tactician will become all the rage :) | |
Champion of Zarak - Evil Half-Orc Assassin | |
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 03/20/2006 11:16 AM |
| | Well the tactician can't kill or route him in one or even two shots as the drummer is fearless with 35hp. Not to mention that the drummer can hide in the corner out of LOS farly easily and still be providing his effects. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 11:21 AM |
| I was discussing this piece with some of the guys at my venue on saturday. I told them "If you've got a Chaotic Evil warband and it doesn't have a Wardrummer, you can make a better warband, no matter what it is."
I think the thing that pushes it beyond the 19 pt. range is the versatility. In chat the other day, I asked some folks if you had to choose one effect for the whole match (as opposed to choosing to change it every round if you want/need) would it still be worth 19 points, I had figured it was, and everyone agreed.
However.
is it broken?
this is difficult. it is undercosted, certainly. but game-breaking? I don't think so. it doesn't change how the game is played. If the intimidating beat affected all of your opponent's saves, it'd be broken for sure, but as it is, with the amount of fearless and high-save figures in play already, as well as commander ratings of 5,6 and 7 being fairly prevaltent, I don't think that it's SO powerful that it's broken. powerful? yes. broken? no. I think the Inspired Marshall is closer to broken than this guy. | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/20/2006 11:35 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Well the tactician can't kill or route him in one or even two shots as the drummer is fearless with 35hp. Not to mention that the drummer can hide in the corner out of LOS farly easily and still be providing his effects.
That's where I put him in my match last night. He just sat in the corner, playing his drum, all game long . . . .
Came in handy too.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 11:49 AM |
| | Wow, maybe I have a use now for all those Valenar Commanders I couldn't stop getting. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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jacksonm
Warlord
5560 Posts
River City
| | 03/20/2006 11:54 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
quote:
Originally posted by Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Well the tactician can't kill or route him in one or even two shots as the drummer is fearless with 35hp. Not to mention that the drummer can hide in the corner out of LOS farly easily and still be providing his effects.
That's where I put him in my match last night. He just sat in the corner, playing his drum, all game long . . . .
Came in handy too.
Dave
That seems to be the common tactic in every game I've seen played with a Wardrummer. | | | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 11:57 AM |
| He is just a great peice. I seriously like the peice a lot and like his effects. But I absolutely hate must have peices. And thats what the Wardrummer is, and I find it a shame. Like you literally would be hurting yourself by not taking him. Its a shame because the peice could have been good in so many ways, if they would have just knocked off one or two things.
I dunno..I doubt he's ever going to get banned or anything like that. The best you can hope for, is that there is a "counter" coming up in the next set or two. If not..this one peice could literally make CE just a badass faction heh. It was already good, but the faction just got so much better because of one peice. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 12:08 PM |
| | Of course, if you simply don't do well with CE bands, having the Wardrummer doesn't help much. In the past two weeks I've tried him in two different CE quad builds and went a combined 1-5 with them.[B)] | |
Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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nedleeds
Warrior
240 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 12:10 PM |
| Eek ... oh well. I second the Valenar. Maybe:
7 x Xendrick Champion
1 x Valenar Commander :) | |
Champion of Zarak - Evil Half-Orc Assassin | |
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Zoons
Underboss
1066 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 12:20 PM |
| I've played him a grand total of 1 time, but I didn't find him broken. I like the versatility, and think it's a strong piece, but even right now, I don't see CE being the dominant force AFTER his introduction.
How can a piece be broken, if it's faction isn't even winning consistantly? LE and LG have 50+% chances against anything I've built with it so far. (Granted the real Uber builders haven't offered us the Drum-fecta instant win build yet[)]) | |
Never teach a pig to sing. It's a waste of time and it annoys the pig.
Champion of the Blink Dog. | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 03/20/2006 12:23 PM |
| Here's the flaw in these complaints: CE isn't overpowered with the addition of this guy. He just makes CE competitive.
We all know how to build CE beater bands. They're pretty simple recipes. Many people would consider this to be a pretty strong CE beater band:
Orc War Drummer (19 / 1)
Tiefling Captain (21 - 40 / 2)
Orc Champion X3 (117 - 157 / 5)
Orc Druid (27 - 184 / 6)
Troglodyte Thug (or Cursed Spirit) (11 - 195 / 7)
Timber Wolf (5 - 200 / 8)
(alternative version - subtract 1 oc and the timber wolf, replace with 1 red samurai and a hyena
alternate version 2 - subtract the druid, tiefling captain and trog thug and wolf, add 3 orc warriors and Ryld
alternate version 3 - subtract 1 OC and troglodyte thug, add Eye of Gruumsh and a second timber wolf)
Those OCs get Save +11 / Morale +15. Pretty awesome, right?
Well, these bands gets creamed right and left by a few different match-ups. 3 or 4 X Helmed Horror Warbands can do some serious damage to them. These warbands still cringe when they face multiple Justice Archon warbands. The Marut+Couatl+Bodyguard warbands often eat these bands alive. Triple Frenzy eats them up pretty well, too. I play tested the War Drummer bands quite a bit ... and they have good match-ups and bad ones. When it's good, they seem nearly invulnerable. When it's bad ... it's bad.
Even if you get the full +8 to morale checks for the OCs, they still have a 15. At 15, they have only an 80% chance to make the morale check. That means that they have a slightly better than 50-50 chance for all 3 OCs to make their morale checks ... That is far from 'practically fearless'.
CE had more problems than just low saves/morale. It still has those other problems. It has low ABs compared to the other factions. It was very low AC compared to the lawful factions. Although it has some very fast beaters, the tech supporting those pieces is kind of slow (speed 6 for most tech pieces). | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
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Balduran I
Sergeant
404 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 12:34 PM |
| The warband most threatened by a Drummer is actually another CE warband. The old quad band, without a drummer, can have a hard time against a Triad band with one.
At 19 points the Drummer is well costed, for 200 points at least. Expensive enough to make a difference - it makes a quad band much less effective by eliminating actions and other tech. While being cheap enough to actually get used in triad builds. | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 1:05 PM |
| Many metagame bands are now including a drummer-hunter, that can take down the happy little orc by the second to third round.
I can tell you that I was not pleased when Rikka took down mine on the weekend. Tough to get help back to that corner, too.
But in general - i agree- a power-piece. And it makes a number of otherwise largely unplayable pieces, playable (HGB, cough).
I can tell you that on the weekend we ran triad down in socal, and the winning (CE) band did NOT have a wardrummer.
Damn!
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Let it be. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 1:51 PM |
| | It's a ridiculous piece from a game balance perspective. When an Orc Champion under a Tiefling and Orc Wardrummer saves higher than a Purple Dragon Knight, there's a problem. LG is supposed to be known for high saves and command rating, and pays thhrough the nose for it, yet the Wardrummer just hands that advantage right back to CE with it's comparable attack bonues, greater HP and almost double-damage. LE can stand with CE toe-to-toe with Helmed Horrors, etc. because they are fearless AND have boku HP or have Conceal, etc. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/20/2006 1:58 PM |
| I've said it elsewhere, the Wardrummer is also good for CG. The Longstrider Ranger can go run across the world and take him out. The Celestial Pegasus can do the same. As the ranks swell with CE bands featuring the Wardrummer, CG bands have a much better chance to do well in a tournament.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:01 PM |
| If your meta has a lot of LE and LG bands, a solid (non-wardrummer) CE band is:
quote:
2x Death Slaad
2x Red Samurai
3x Orc Warrior
1x Timber Wolf
There's no way to include a wardrummer and still use both Slaad and both Samurai. The four of them combine for a potential 80 damage that overlaps multiple enemy units.
Sure, the saves aren't great, but, with two commanders, a rally is fairly likely, and vs Lawful bands, you really should have an edge in damage and activations before melee even starts.
This band is quite good against any lawful band, and, vs chaotics, it can be good if you achieve a rend, which is even possible with a Wardrummer adding +4 to saves.
The fast, flying, decently armored Death Slaad can go and hunt down the wardrummer in certain situations, then proceed to try to rend.
The wardrummer can't even attack without abandoning his drum beat for a round if he's based by something as simple as a timber wolf or orc warrior. You can stun a wardrummer to prevent him from using his drum beat, which must be actively chosen when the wardrummer activates.
The best thing to base the wardrummer with, that I think would prove pretty easy to accomplish, is a Gith Monk.
Try for an auto-crit stun in rnd 2 or 3, then swing away in round 3 or 4.
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Completed good trades with Demagogue, PigSnot, DoB, and Alepulp.
I know you can hear MY thoughts... Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow, Meow... | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:01 PM |
| You're right.
Ban it immediately.
[:p] | |
I am not gone. | |
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Avatar of the Tank
Newtoncain
Commander
2985 Posts
Land of 10,000 taxes
| | 03/20/2006 2:23 PM |
| | LSR for CG and GD for LE can work to hunt down a OWD. | |
They just don't know what's good in life...Conan, tell them what is good in life.
To rip the boosters. To count the minis spilled out before you, and to hear the indifference of the women... | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 03/20/2006 2:26 PM |
| Yes the wardrummer is powerful, but it dosnt over power CE. It obviously strengthens chaotic evil and makes other faction builds have to figure into their warband the possibility of him showing up. Thus, adding more dynamics to the game and making it so there is not a one type band wins all solution. There are several bands that A WD CE beater band have trouble against. As already mentioned, LE =3 * HH, LG =C, M, WB. No shoe fits all and the more I have analyzed the many different competitive bands, I find each has a weakness.
Adding a wardrummer means 1 less beater or a weaker commander, thus adding a weakness for a different kind of strength. | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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| D&D Miniatures
Guru
guyf
Sergeant
545 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:29 PM |
| | Orc Wardrummer is not broken. Using him in a CE warband generally requires you to make some pretty big sacrificies. (More details coming on Thursday, I believe.) | |
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Guy Fullerton
Official D&D Miniatures Net Rep | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| |
iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 03/20/2006 2:41 PM |
| | I play the wardrummer and I have to say that he,s an overpowered creature.I dislike the idea of remove him of the game,because Its very soon to do this.Bt the truth is this creature is an absolutely MUST in all CE warbands you can make.I cannot understand how can he cost only 19 points.Its a completely madness and clearly undercosted for his power.Its an awesome piece if combined with umber hulk,troglodite,taer,cursed spirit....I think this creature should be LG not CE.Well,overpowered in any case but no banned in my opinion. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:02 PM |
| people are making war bands based around taking out one tech peice? oh man would i like to live where people are doing that, see how fast i'd make a band to crush there anti tech units including rikka.
he's a not a game breaking mini and 19 points is a a lot of damage you could of had for CE. what do i mean? two fodder peice doing a total of 30 normal damage with fearless?? Quaggoth Slave!
bout time CE get some help i say, not like CE being ruling any games as of the still in print sets. people are doing the same talk with the Helmed Horror for LE and i say LE is a little power weighted. i'v seen nothing but good minis from that class time and time again. CE normaly gets the the scraps left over.
banning this mini would be silly and you'd migth as well toss CE back in the cr@$$er again(talking about still inprint sets here too).
by the way has anyone tried a x2 wardrummer balor band? one drummer playing -4 one doing counter song with a Troglodyte Thug and curse of spirit maybe? | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:18 PM |
| I don't think it should be banned by any means, but it is a ridiculous piece. CE already has many of the cost-effective hitters and doesn't sacrifice that much by adding it.
Tiefling Captain 21
Orc Wardrummer 19 40
Red Samurai 40 80
Orc Champion 39 119
Ogre Ravager 38 157
Orc Mauler 26 183
Cursed Spirit 11 194
Orc Savage or Timberwolf per taste...
Still give you an essential Quad with the Savage or Wolf to get tile points until the Cursed Spirit gets there and they have good saves with even the Orc Mauler saving at +14. Do you want to face that with a 34-point figure having to go off on his own to take on the Wardrummer in CG? Having Rikka become a level 1 piece for morale? A PDK at save=10 for morale?
I will argue this is not a good thing. Broken? No, but ridiculous none-the-less. Had the wardrummer just gone one way, it would have been well worth the cost, but the ability to switch effects is really powerful, especially for only 19 points.
And I will admit, I look at this from the perspective of someone who likes LG. The best thing about the wardrummer is if chaotics resurge, the Justice Archon is good once again and LG has a few options that won't get killed quite as fast. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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| D&D Miniatures
Guru
guyf
Sergeant
545 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
Still give you an essential Quad
Quad? Who's your fourth hitter? The Mauler? With just one attack for 15 damage?
Looks like a Tri to me.
quote:
The best thing about the wardrummer is if chaotics resurge, the Justice Archon is good once again and LG has a few options that won't get killed quite as fast.
IMO, the best thing about the Wardrummer is that it subtly *reduces* CE's power. CE warbands either bring fewer hitters, lower-quality hitters, or a lower commander rating in order to use the wardrummer. | |
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Guy Fullerton
Official D&D Miniatures Net Rep | |
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NinjaRay
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:45 PM |
| | I'll almost agree with Guy. The Wardrummer does reduce the ammount of points CE has to play with then building a band, but you can run a Tiefling, 2 Ravs, 2 Orc Champs, 2 Orc Warriors and a Wardrummer or Ryld, 1 Red Sam, 1 Rav, 1 Orc Champ, Wardrummer, and 3 Orc Warriors. Each one of these bands has 4 hitters & decent (or great) command. Making the wardrummer 4 to 5 points more expensive would have really changed this. You'd have to run less activations to get 4 hitters or lesser quality hitters. | |
Beatdown Happens.... | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
Still give you an essential Quad
Quad? Who's your fourth hitter? The Mauler? With just one attack for 15 damage?
Looks like a Tri to me.
The Savage/Mauler combo is roughly equivalent to a 4th hitter. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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| D&D Miniatures
Guru
guyf
Sergeant
545 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
The Savage/Mauler combo is roughly equivalent to a 4th hitter.
If "roughly equivalent to" means "less than," then I'll agree with you [)]
I can think of almost no circumstances when I'd swap that pair in for an Orc Champ, Red Sam, or Ogre Ravager (assuming I had the points).
The Savage/Mauler damage output simply doesn't compare with any one of those other three. But then again, you're paying less points for the Savage/Mauler combo and getting less offense from it. And that's my point in the first place. You just brought a lower quality hitter in order to fit your Wardrummer.
NinjaRay brought up a great point. The fourth sacrifice you can make is activations. You can get a *true* Quad + Tiefling + Wardrummer if you run only 6-7 activations. I may have forgotten that detail before, but I didn't forget it for Thursday [:)] | |
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Guy Fullerton
Official D&D Miniatures Net Rep | |
| D&D Miniatures
Guru
guyf
Sergeant
545 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:54 PM |
| | Note also that the Wardrummer subtly promotes the use of less speed & fewer 30 magic damage swings in CE. You see fewer Eye + Orc Champ warbands, and more Ogre Ravagers. | |
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Guy Fullerton
Official D&D Miniatures Net Rep | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 3:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
Note also that the Wardrummer subtly promotes the use of less speed & fewer 30 magic damage swings in CE. You see fewer Eye + Orc Champ warbands, and more Ogre Ravagers.
None of my Wardrummer warbands has included the Ogre Ravager. [:p]
But we have a really lawful-heavy metagame around here, so it makes less sense to include it. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 4:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Plus, you're crazy. It's all good.
LIES ALL LIES!!!!!!#$#$@#$#$@$#@##$@@#$@#$@# | |
I am not gone. | |
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NinjaRay
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 4:44 PM |
| Guy: My point was that you can currently run quad hitter bands that have 8 activations with Wardrummer. 2 Orc Champs, 2 Ravs, 2 Orc Warriors, Teifling Cap, and Wardrummer is 8 activations. Ryld, Wardrummer, Red Sam, Rav, and Orc Champ plus 3 Orc Warriors is also 8 activations. I Count Ryld as a Hitter (I know, that's silly).
While these bands are off the top of my head and largily base on what I know od the Metagame from a year ago, I'd hazard to say they are Teir 1 bands or at least close. Running the Eye in a Quad hitter band will require a Loss of activations and I'm really not sure what hitters that are Tier one that came out in Underdark or Angelfire. If I'm missing a CE hitter that can't fit in a quad wardrummer band with 8 activations, let me know. | |
Beatdown Happens.... | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:03 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
The Savage/Mauler combo is roughly equivalent to a 4th hitter.
If "roughly equivalent to" means "less than," then I'll agree with you [)]
I can think of almost no circumstances when I'd swap that pair in for an Orc Champ, Red Sam, or Ogre Ravager (assuming I had the points).
The Savage/Mauler damage output simply doesn't compare with any one of those other three. But then again, you're paying less points for the Savage/Mauler combo and getting less offense from it. And that's my point in the first place. You just brought a lower quality hitter in order to fit your Wardrummer.
NinjaRay brought up a great point. The fourth sacrifice you can make is activations. You can get a *true* Quad + Tiefling + Wardrummer if you run only 6-7 activations. I may have forgotten that detail before, but I didn't forget it for Thursday [:)]
While the combo isn't an Orc Campion, which has always been the benchmark for awesome power, it's still pretty darned good with +11/+7 (15) and dual-activation and about 100 HP. It's not quite there, but it shouldn't be either. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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Chad the DragonLordofAiur
Underboss
1085 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 03/20/2006 5:19 PM |
| @Gunthar
Forget the Mauler - use a Mounted Drow Patrol for just one point more and you get much more versatility and the same damage plus a second attack and almost exactly the same attack bonus. Not to mention reach 2, mounted melee attack, spell resistance and conceal 6, and a higher level. The Mauler is just bad. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
486 - 188 - 4 | |
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Berzerker_of_Chaos
Skirmisher
33 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:34 PM |
| niether the drider sorcerer nor the wardrummer are broke yes the drider slows down game play thats the main reason why itrs band but who here can honestly say they used all the spells I have once and I have used the drider its fair share of times.
The Orc wardrummer is an amazing peace but not broke the only alignment that will suffer is ce agains one because Lawful levels are so high minus 4 just puts them near what cauotic evil has been all this time, and lawful good has more feareless then you can shak stick at. chaotic good has enough abbilities and high commanders that thier saves are damn good too now i dont know about most people but i dont use the orc wardrummer as much to decrease my enemies warbands but boost my saves so my guys dont high tail-it and run every severy second moral save. | |
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John05
Warrior
246 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Plus, you're crazy. It's all good.
LIES ALL LIES!!!!!!#$#$@#$#$@$#@##$@@#$@#$@#
He lies my preciousss, the little hobbitses, he liesss... [:o)]
Ogre Ravager is not bad.
Personally, I don't think 8 activations is absolutely necessary when you have 4 heavy hitters saving at +15 or more for morale:
21 Tiefling Captain
117 Orc Champion x3
40 Red Samurai
19 Orc Wardrummer
3 Orc Warrior
200 points, 7 activations
Tell me this band WOULDN'T be a match for any 8 activation warband out there...
~John | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:36 PM |
| In a Triple beater CE warband I've been looking at the Ogre War Hulk as a possibility with the War Drummer. It's cost is a bit of a let down overall but that can be offset when you can get off 3-4 attacks with his Whirlwind attack. Can make up for the loss of the fourth beater on occasion.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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