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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
    
 | | 03/21/2006 6:34 PM |
| If a paralyzed creature has DR, do you double the damage and then subtract or subtract and then double?
IE, a justice archon is paralyzed by a Gauth. A Direguard then hits the archon. Does it do fifteen damage [(10 * 2) -5] or ten damage [(10 -5) * 2)]? | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
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EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 7:28 PM |
| | damage is doubled before modifiers. so it'd do 15 | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
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Narcissus
Warrior
197 Posts
| | 03/21/2006 11:32 PM |
| From the FAQ:
Q. What if various effects are adding and subtracting to damage? In what order do I handle the math?
A. Start with effects that apply to the attacker and finish with effects that apply to the defender, in the following order:
1. As appropriate, double the base damage for criticals and melee attacks against helpless creatures.
2. Apply all additions to the damage for abilities or effects associated with the attacker. Examples: Sneak Attack, Smite, Commander Effects that add to damage.
3. Apply all subtractions associated with the attacker in whatever order the attacking creature's player desires. If a subtraction effect specifies a minimum and the current result is already less than or equal to the minimum, don't apply the subtraction or its minimum. If an effect specifies a minimum, and the result after that operation is less than the minimum amount, use the minimum as the result of that operation. Examples: Huge Gold Dragon's damage -5 breath weapon, ray of enfeeblement.
4. If applicable, roll the save and reduce damage to half.
5. Apply all subtractions for abilities associated with the defender in whatever order the defending creature's player desires. Examples: DR, Resist ENERGY, Adamantine Laced.
6. Apply any of the defender's abilities that multiply the damage. Example: Vulnerable DAMAGE TYPE.
Example 1: A Dwarf Axefighter (which normally deals 10 points of damage) has been affected by both a Huge Gold Dragon's Breath Weapon (damage -5) as well as a ray of enfeeblement (damage -5 [minimum 5]). It hits an Axe Sister, which has no relevant defenses. Because both subtractions are associated with the Dwarf Axefighter, the player of the Dwarf Axefighter gets to choose the order in which they are applied. The player wisely chooses to first apply the subtraction from the Breath Weapon, which reduces the damage dealt to 5. Next, the ray of enfeeblement is applied, but that subtraction can't reduce the damage below 5, so the damage is still 5. (If the Dwarf Axefighter's player had chosen to apply the ray of enfeeblement before the Breath Weapon, the damage would have been 0!) Since the Axe Sister doesn't have any relevant defenses, the final damage is 5.
Example 2: A Medium Fire Elemental (5 + 5 fire) has been affected by a ray of enfeeblement (damage -5 [minimum 5]) and benefits from the Drow Cleric of Lolth's Commander Effect ("Followers deal melee damage +5 to flanked creatures."). It gets a critical hit against a flanked Warforged Fighter (Adamantine Laced 5). First, the base damage is doubled because of the critical hit, which brings the total to 10 + 5 fire. Next, the bonus from the Commander Effect is applied, bringing the total to 15 + 5 fire. At this point, the subtraction from ray of enfeeblement is applied. Just like additions to damage, untyped subtractions to damage are always the same type as the base damage, so the subtraction must apply to the normal damage. This brings the total to 10 + 5 fire. Now, the Warforged Fighter's only defense (Adamantine Laced 5) is applied, resulting in a final damage of 5 + 5 fire.
Example 3: Later on, when it no longer benefits from the Commander Effect, the same Medium Fire Elemental (5 + 5 fire) hits the Warforged Fighter (Adamantine Laced 5) again. Since there are no additions to the damage, the first step is to apply the ray of enfeeblement (damage -5 [minimum 5]). As usual, untyped modifiers to damage always apply to the base damage only. Ray of enfeeblement has a [minimum 5] limitation, so it can't reduce the base damage below 5, which leaves the total at 5 + 5 fire. Next, the Warforged Fighter's Adamantine Laced 5 ability eliminates all of the normal damage, yielding a final damage of 5 fire. | |
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