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CTSparky
Sneak
128 Posts
    
 | | 03/22/2006 7:36 AM |
| guys I'm playing a 200 pt contructed tourney and I was wondering what is the best hitter vs LG bands
Most people will be playing Marut Couatl with some playing beholder naga.
I have the following at my disposal
2 Duerger champions
2 Helmed horrors
5 Chralls
I was planning on using rakashasa or shuluth as my commander and filling up the rest of the band with xorns, kobold miners, saguain rangers, etc.
The base band I am thinking of is this (Stolen and modified from another thread)
Rakshasa
Zaky Rakshasa
Duerger Champ x2
Saghauin Ranger
Xorn
Kobold miner
Large Duerger
Let me know what you think. | |
I have yet to be Guyf'd. But I have been f'ed. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 7:55 AM |
| | If you think there are going to be Beholders, get in at least one Helmed Horror. They are majorly important to blocking eye rays. | |
Champion of Prit(Wemic vindication is here)
Minneapolis/St. Paul area
Completed trades: Aspect of Cheese (Love that moniker), Tickparasite, Elderthing, Lalato, Sodj, Grimoire, SmilinIrish, Zeb, RWarehall,Link, wikkawikkawa, Auramancer, Rommers, HK, Ivid5,Qillan_dvra, Puggins, Arcabius, Ironfist Boulderbender, Robby, Corim Danex, monster_slayer, DNDJUNKIE, Kelemvor, Krush, ckissee, Massawyrm, hockey fan, Wish, Uninspiring Lieutenant, vtloon x2, Vrecknidj, Darthpoke, WakeXX, AnarionZell, lycusmike, papabear5 and umpteen local trades with board members
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 7:59 AM |
| The Saghauin Ranger seems an odd choice. Perhaps drop it for another Lg. Duergar (defensive mix) or add a Kobold Miner and use the rest of the points to upgrade a DC to an HH. Otherwise it seems quite reasonable.
In answer to your initial question about what is best to deal with the lawful factions; I'd lean towards high attack bonus and non-cold damage. So many LG factions have Couatls while LE has many undead, plus in general each faction has some rather playable cold resistant creatures. All of this leaves the once commonplace Chralls out in the cold. [:)] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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orcmonk220
Underboss
1608 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 9:06 AM |
| | Helmed Horror would always be your best bet against a Beholder warband. Take one, you can not regreat it [)] | |
My Trading Thread | |
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Orion72
Underboss
1917 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 10:05 AM |
| | I'd go with Rakshasa, ZakyRak, Doogie Champ x2, HH, and 3 Miners. You have 2 or 3 points left to up grade a Miner to a T-Wolf, or one Doogie to a Chraal (though in a Couatl-heavy environment, you might be better with 2 Doogies). | | | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 03/22/2006 10:16 AM |
| I think you're on the right track. If the metagame is heavy with LG, you really need high attack bonuses more than anything else. The morale save issue can solve itself by picking reasonbly high-level pieces and/or reasonably high commander ratings.
If the meta is so heavily LG that you can reasonably expect not to face any Beholders, then the Helmed Horror suggestion is probably not that important for you.
Are you expecting a lot of Couatls? I'd imagine you would be. In that case, the Efreeti and Chraal aren't so good. So, sticking with your two Duergar Champs is probably best. If there aren't all that many Couatls, then the Efreeti and Chraal become very nice options to replace a Duergar Champ.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 03/22/2006 10:24 AM |
| Rakshasa
Helmed Horror
2x duergar champs
3x large duergar
1x kobold miner
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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CTSparky
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 1:46 PM |
| I'm going to bring sunglasses to the event, otherwise I'd be blinded by all the colors on the board. I specifically know that one guys will be running double couatl just to use it on marut.
Right now I'm leaning this way for my warband.
Rakshasa
Helmed Horror x 2
Duerger Champion x2
Kobold miner
I only own 2 duerger champions so that is what I have. I also only have 2 large Duerger.
So is it worth it to run a 2nd HH or run 2 enlarged duerger and something else?
I like the idea of a Quad hitter band, and facing other duerger is not a problem with Helmed Horrors on DC(champs).
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I have yet to be Guyf'd. But I have been f'ed. | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 2:31 PM |
| I'd go with something like Orion72 suggested:
Rak
ZakRak
HH
Duergar Champ x2
Kobold miner x3
If you are comfortable with only six activations I think the Rak, dual HH, dual DC, KM band you are thinking of would work too. | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 2:31 PM |
| I'd go with something like Orion72 suggested:
Rak
ZakRak
HH
Duergar Champ x2
Kobold miner x3
If you are comfortable with only six activations I think the Rak, dual HH, dual DC, KM band you are thinking of would work too. | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 2:50 PM |
| Honestly, the best LE hitter in a Lawful-heavy metagame is the Zakya Rakshasa. With Beholders the value of the helmed horror is definitely increased, and running a pair of them (to serve as protection against one sliding a helmed horror out of LOS) isn't a bad idea.
The Zakya has a number of advantages when dealing with other lawful pieces.
1) Its +20 to hit with its first attack of a skirmish allows it to plunk down some near-auto damage on the high AC lawful pieces.
2) Its higher AC and DR are better against creatures that ignore blindsight (like the Marut and Helmed Horror) then the Duergar Champion's conceal check.
3) Spell resistance offers it more protection against most of the LE's commander's spells.
Of course it has a weakness in the form of Save = 7 which makes it so its more likely to run when paired with the Rakshasa, more likely to get paralyzed by the gauth, more susceptible to the rays of the beholder, and the stun of the gith monk.
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I am not gone. | |
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CTSparky
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 4:44 PM |
| OK after listening to you guys here is what I have. If you have suggestions get them in guys and once again thanks.
Rakshasa x1
Duerger Champ x2
Helmed Horror x1
Zak Rak x1
Blue x1
Kobold miner x2
199 pts 8 activations. Do you prefer a 197 pt army with 3 kobold miners, what about skeletal legionaires or skeletal dwarves?
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I have yet to be Guyf'd. But I have been f'ed. | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 4:51 PM |
| | The blue is a great piece, I would definitely reccomend it. Oh, and your warband looks good. Very solid. Now you need to figure out which map to use. :P | |
I am not gone. | |
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Void
Sneak
156 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 5:19 PM |
| | I think running just two kobold miners makes it too unlikely that at least one lands on a victory area. I'd probably run timber wolf, goblin skirmisher, duergar warrior instead of blue + 2 KM. | |
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CTSparky
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 11:22 PM |
| Outcome of the event: I placed 1st out of 9 peopl. Three round tournament, and I had a first round bye. My final warband was:
Rak, Zak Rak, 2 Duerger Champ, Helmed H, 2 miner, blue
I choose the field of ruin map
There were 3 various types of Couatl(Cou) Marut(Mar) Bands.
Cou, mar, Just; Cou x2 mar; Mar Sword Archon; CoDA mar.
both games I got 1 miner in a good victory area. i always set up in side A.
First game: I face a Shuluth Chrall band:
Shuluth, 2 x chrall, 2 x duerger champion and nothing else 195 pt.
I set up the map and get both miners in the same spot. He sets up. He mistakenly positions his champs to take care of the miners, and he splits the chrall one down the center and one down the side I'm setting up on. I charge with a champ against his chrall, put both champs on the chrall and walk the Zaky to the side taking 10 points. then bigby's to get the chrall to pass his save.
I get init next round and manage to make my saves and kill the chrall after he moved his duerger in range of the death burst ( he should have actived the chrall but did not) The chrall dieed while my Helmed horror was basing Shuluth. He moved away and I took the AoO and hit him. Then I flew over him and hit hit again.
In the third round i activated first and hit shuluth forcing a morale save. He makes but the next hits and kills shuluth and the other chrall bites the dust. Person concedes.
Second game: Against the guy with the best rating in the store:
His band: 5 Duerger champ, mindflayer.
I win map and Side and place 1 kobold right in his way and the second in the rubble to the side (VA A). He sets up far left (Side B)
1st turn He wins and goes killing a moner and getting his other duerger by for a charge. I move my miner so rough terrain gets in the way. Then I set up my champs up the side while keeping the helmed back to protect my commander. He moves 2 champs into the mutual VA and moves his flayer up, and blasts but I make all my saves. I manage to bring up the Zaky and chill touch 1 duerger. Then base same one with Helmed putting my other duerger in the rubble by the cannon ball to prevent a charge and protect the flank. Then I move Rak up and bigbys, he passes.
Second turn I win init and bigby's and he fails. I get 2 hits one of which hits. Then my Zaky goes and hits twice killing the thing (it made morale) He stuns zaky with cone and I attack with HH and move a duerger up. my other flanks the mind flayer and gets hit.
Round three I win init and hit the flayer teice. He routs and runs off the board; after that I manage to chip away at duergers.
Interesting things: I forgot about cleave (goes to show playing LE in a while) and the raky Cfx was not present for the bands I played. I did not face a marut band all night. Blue never made a difference. | |
I have yet to be Guyf'd. But I have been f'ed. | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 11:55 AM |
| | I think the band you ended up going with is very solid. Too bad blue didnt come up big, I like using that sneaky little hooligan! Thanks for the write up, its nice to see what people go with and how they do after they get a critique. Well done! | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 03/23/2006 1:10 PM |
| Why the HECK would your 1st opponent not add at least a timber wolf for tile grabbing, with only 195 pt spent?
Your LE band had a good mix of hitters with different strengths, and it sounds like you used them in their proper roles. | |
There are 10 kinds of people in the world; those who understand binary, and those who don't.
Reference Thread, H/W List, Champion of the Catoblepas | |
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CTSparky
Sneak
128 Posts
| | 03/24/2006 10:12 PM |
| The first guy hastily built his band and had not played since the new rules came into effect. i help guide him through the new rules. The guy did make some serious tactical mistakes by not getting his DC's into attack fast enough and allowing the HH to base Shuluth in order to kill him.
Yhe second guy hada good band, but got lured by the miners, and then moved too close so that I could base the mimd flayer. In the second match I also got the rolls I needed to capitalize.
I messed up not remembering cleave, but there were not many times it would have come in handy. | |
I have yet to be Guyf'd. But I have been f'ed. | |
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