Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
    
USA
 | | 03/29/2006 9:42 AM |
| OK, so I've been trying the Night Hag in numerous skirmishes, and not once has she faced a Helmed Horror. With a prevelane of Helmed Horrors around, and the Night Hag very anti Helmed Horror (has DR, immune fire, and can nerf the HH with Ray of Enfeeblement), I though I'd give her a try.
Here's what I've tried so far:
Urthok
HH
Duergar Champ
Night Hag
Zyka Rakshasa
Warrior Skeleton
x2 Kobold Miners
This warband has gone 2-2 (2 wins versus CE, 1 lose vs Kord WB & 1 loss vs Beholder WB (2 of my hitters were disintigrated)). In loses, there was some very very bad dice rolls.
Rakshasa
HH
Duergar Champ
Night Hag
x2 Large Duergars
Kobold Miner
Wolf
So far this warband has gone 2-0 (1 vs CE Dark Deep Dragn/Mnt Drow Patrol/Orc Champ WB, 1 win vs FB WB).
My findings:
1) Night Hag is ok. [^]
2) She is very slow (@ sp 4).
3) It can be hard to get off the Ray of Enfeeblement on the desired target.
4) Use her Magic Missles asap.
5) She is a very good cleanup hitter after your other hitters. [)]
I have no idea on how she will fair against a HH as I have not faced one with her yet. [:(!]
Side note - Large Duergars are pretty good blockers. 45 hit points for 15 point cost is very good. But the low level (4) makes them run very easily. Keep them away from opponents big hitters and go after other medium creatures. And try not to use more than 1 them.
My $0.02 worth.
Any comments?
[:D] | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 9:48 AM |
| I'd say if she had Speed 6 and the Magic Missiles would be Empowered and did 10 damage, she would see more play. But as it is your paying too many points on a slow creature with a small ranged threat, and a single decent melee attack.
Half the time I'd rather use an Efreeti for the fire spells. | |
Champion of the Sarrukh | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 9:52 AM |
| She looks decent on paper, until you get to the Speed 4.
That is a serious liability, since the only way you get her close to battle early is to forgo the Magic Missiles and double move, which is neglecting one of her good abilities.
As an anti-helmed horror piece, she's ok, if they don't just ignore her until the end. | |
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Runelord151
Underboss
1203 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 10:20 AM |
| I was looking at this one to add to my warband, but as has been said, that speed 4 kills her.
Compaired to the HH (which is about the same cost), she has:
lower attack / less damage potential, lower HP, slower movement and a couple of defence related abilities (most of which are better than the HH).
I guess it would depend on wether you are more agressive in play or like to be on the defencive.
I'm finding that the HH is hard to pass up in LE right now..... | | | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 10:56 AM |
| DR and Fire immunity quite effectively turns one Helmed Horror into a nuisance. If she can also use the Ray, suddenly it does no damage to her at all.
Of course, HHs usually fly around in pairs, or else have other hitters in support, or else have a Dark Moon Monk or Kobold Sorceror on hand ot cast Magic Weapon, so this scenario rarely applies.
I do like the Night Hag, did well with her in sealed (in different games I was able to nerf Obould and a Hill Giant Barbarian), but it's hard to get her into a strong LE band. | |
Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 03/29/2006 12:09 PM |
| | I love the night hag but I must admit she is almost useless.His invisibility is useful to cast an unavoidable efeblement but then, she becomes more and more useless. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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rondom
Skirmisher
42 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Helzapoppn
DR and Fire immunity quite effectively turns one Helmed Horror into a nuisance. If she can also use the Ray, suddenly it does no damage to her at all.
Of course, HHs usually fly around in pairs, or else have other hitters in support, or else have a Dark Moon Monk or Kobold Sorceror on hand ot cast Magic Weapon, so this scenario rarely applies.
I do like the Night Hag, did well with her in sealed (in different games I was able to nerf Obould and a Hill Giant Barbarian), but it's hard to get her into a strong LE band.
HH in 'only' pairs - yeah right . | |
Rondom
Remember - if you can use all your figures it's 'Full' - if not it's 'Restricted'. Anything that cycles figures out of use in a planned timetable is 'Planned Obsolesence'. Never accept your enemy's terms! | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:43 PM |
| | Sealed, love her. Constructed - too many other options that are half step better. She just too greatly limits the ability to try for board control. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 12:48 PM |
| | ideas may be in the works for this girl yet.... | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
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Gloom_
Sergeant
583 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by rondom
quote:
Originally posted by Helzapoppn
DR and Fire immunity quite effectively turns one Helmed Horror into a nuisance. If she can also use the Ray, suddenly it does no damage to her at all.
Of course, HHs usually fly around in pairs, or else have other hitters in support, or else have a Dark Moon Monk or Kobold Sorceror on hand ot cast Magic Weapon, so this scenario rarely applies.
I do like the Night Hag, did well with her in sealed (in different games I was able to nerf Obould and a Hill Giant Barbarian), but it's hard to get her into a strong LE band.
HH in 'only' pairs - yeah right .
Yeah, well, you're the exception Ron! [:p]
TBH, I wouldn't expect to see more than 3 Horrors in the current meta. 2 is more likely for an average. | |
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 03/29/2006 3:46 PM |
| she's probably one more RoE from being a good meta-piece.
perhaps there will be a cool band with her and red wizard someday. | |
Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
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fritz
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 3:57 PM |
| Anyone have tried
Night Hag X4
Kobold Miner X4
12 activation
184 points
Close to the last turn, activate(attack) with 3 of 4 Night hag(presuming the fourth NH is in a victory area) to try to kill some cheap enemy peace to get the victory points without the enemy killing any night hag, since they were invisible for all the skirmish (kobold miner gives no points)...
So u kill a cheap enemy fodder and get just the point to win with victory. If u didn't get your K.M. in a victory area in the first turn, you try to kill bigger enemy pieces in the last turns. AC 22 and 70 hp can last, but watch out for morale saves. The biggest difficulty is to actually reach for that particular enemy piece(no flying/incorporeal). | |
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shemnon
Warrior
279 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:27 PM |
| No, with the four night hags try and camp in the middle four squares of the map. Let the game end either way, assauilt points or timeout.
This won't quit work, which is why I am sure that they costed her ar more than 40points. Because with five you could camp 4 in the middle and move one into a victory area. You need too many miners to keep points up or to help occupy the middle. | |
The Miniatures War College -- Advenio paratus. Egressus melior paratus. | |
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Sharn Inquisitor
Underboss
1623 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:34 PM |
| | Um, have I just been reading my Helmed Horror cards wrong...or did I miss an errata, but the Helmed Horror doesn't have DR. | | | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 4:36 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by fritz
Anyone have tried
Night Hag X4
Kobold Miner X4
12 activation
184 points
Close to the last turn, activate(attack) with 3 of 4 Night hag(presuming the fourth NH is in a victory area) to try to kill some cheap enemy peace to get the victory points without the enemy killing any night hag, since they were invisible for all the skirmish (kobold miner gives no points)...
So u kill a cheap enemy fodder and get just the point to win with victory. If u didn't get your K.M. in a victory area in the first turn, you try to kill bigger enemy pieces in the last turns. AC 22 and 70 hp can last, but watch out for morale saves. The biggest difficulty is to actually reach for that particular enemy piece(no flying/incorporeal).
Don't forget that Invisible does not equal Invincible. Invisible creatures can still take damage and can even be attacked. Pray you don't go up against a Marut or anything else with blindsight. | |
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fritz
Sneak
57 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 5:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XenoZephyr
quote:
Originally posted by fritz
Anyone have tried
Night Hag X4
Kobold Miner X4
12 activation
184 points
Close to the last turn, activate(attack) with 3 of 4 Night hag(presuming the fourth NH is in a victory area) to try to kill some cheap enemy peace to get the victory points without the enemy killing any night hag, since they were invisible for all the skirmish (kobold miner gives no points)...
So u kill a cheap enemy fodder and get just the point to win with victory. If u didn't get your K.M. in a victory area in the first turn, you try to kill bigger enemy pieces in the last turns. AC 22 and 70 hp can last, but watch out for morale saves. The biggest difficulty is to actually reach for that particular enemy piece(no flying/incorporeal).
Don't forget that Invisible does not equal Invincible. Invisible creatures can still take damage and can even be attacked. Pray you don't go up against a Marut or anything else with blindsight.
I know...
but i thought tha tier 1 figs had blindsight. But Marut is use a lot, so... maybe not an idea that good... | |
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Kithmaker
Commander
3926 Posts
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 6:06 PM |
| | Weird, I just came up with the four Night Hag, four miner warband last night in mIRC. The plan was to a) totally demolish multi-helmed horror warbands since they can't actually hurt a night hag (ray, dr, Imm: fire) and b) play keep away from anything else (the inevitable CE quad updates featuring drummers). I did not notice she was only speed 4 though, that really sucks. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2023 Posts
Portland OR
| | 03/29/2006 6:41 PM |
| love her for prolonging the life of your already viable hitters...if you have a 30 hitter you can no longer just "ding" the duergar for hte last five with any old thing...a 25 hitter the same...a 20 now has to hit at least 5 to kill or 4 + ding...conceal 6= 20%...each extra swing you make your opponent take increases the likely hood of more bang for you buck on the duergar...zakya benifits if your oponent doesn't have magic dmg...much the same goes for helmed and maybe even for khumat...
if her disguise self ability was a check box i bet she would see lots more play...same with speed...her abilities are just so counter themselves- unlimted mm but disguise- decent att and dmg but ranged effects- very survivable but caster- seems like she should have got a bit of a price discount knowing you would never be able to use her in her optimum setting because one just doesn't exist...with games going longer now though it could alter things ever so slightely to make her halfway viable...
i think if you can get off 2 mm enfeeble then either swing or mm away you'll get your points out of her...if you can play her on broken hellgate and win side init you can get her that head start she needs... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11768 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 03/29/2006 7:26 PM |
| | Yes, she is being played. Not a lot, mind you, because she's just there for Helmed Horror hate. It's too bad that one of the best pieces for taking down the HH is from the same faction. LE dominates even more this way. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 7:47 PM |
| | It's the Speed 4 that kills her use for me. | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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Mr_Nived
Skirmisher
38 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 8:36 PM |
| | How about taking out 2 HH in the popular 4HH band and replacing them with the 2hags and whatever else? | |
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