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fallaxdraco
Skirmisher
6 Posts
    
 | | 03/29/2006 4:23 PM |
| I've been tooling around with a new LE band for the past week ago, and thus far I seem to be doing really well with it. It is:
Dark Naga
Gauth
Duergar Champion
Zakya Rakshasa
Khumat
5 Pieces, 200 points.
I'm a huge fan of the Helmed Horror, but early on playing it with Naga/Gauth I realized most of the matches I was losing were to bands that had fire resistance and DR.
If they could force the horror to engage the piece he was doing only 5 to, while also helping against the fire damage of the Gauth, I would usually lose.
So, much as it pained me, I dropped it and 2 tilegrabbing Kobold Miners for the Khumat, and thus far I haven't regretted it at all, especially since I switched out one champ and the last miner(need multiples to guarantee tile points anyway) for the Zakya Rakshasa.
In the metagame at my FLGS, at least, I've found this to be a stronger build. Khumat often forces even standard beaters of any alignment to run, and even if they rally that has often made the difference.
With only a Naga to command him he has morale troubles of his own, but the offense of this band so far outstrips that of the HH band that I don't often have to make them, taking out the enemy offense very quickly, even with a Couatl negating Gauth.
One band I haven't faced yet is one that may give this one serious problems, though - CE beats with a wardrummer. If they make all their saves for morale and Paralysis, with the wardrummer and a Tiefling Captain is pretty likely, I'll probably lose.
Tile points could be a problem as well, but thus far I haven't had much trouble getting my Zakya there first or second round depending on the map.
If they choose to not fight me there, that's just more rounds for the Gauth to hit them - I haven't been denied tile points completely yet - no one seems to want to send anything serious at the Gauth/my rear when they have to run the gauntlet to get there, and things like Rikka, Sacred Watchers, and other assassins tend to die very quickly to Gauth, the Naga, and sometimes the Zakya.
I think dropping one Champ for a Zakya is very valuable even if you have to lose fodder to do it(DR5 + Spell Resistance even out with Conceal and Immune Poison/Paralysis in my opinion, and THEN it has speed 8 instead of 6,) but perhaps I would be better served dropping the Khumat for a Helmed Horror and some tile-grabbing fodder again. What do you think? | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 03/29/2006 5:06 PM |
| | I like the khumat very much but i must to admit its not a tier 1 piece.For his cost,hes not so powerful...only one attack ans only 20 damage.And the morale save is only against medium or smaller.The helmet horror is better in everything and with the gauth is fearsome. Even if you meet inmune fire creatures,you can paralize them or stun them and obliterate them with the horror.The dark naga is the best commander,indeed.I dislike the duergar champion.I like much more the large duergar and the chraal.And the zakya...I dont think he will be a number one but maybe....Ah,one more thing...Only 5 activations?do you want to be overwhelmed?man,6 at least. | |
LOVE THIS GIRL | |
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Pegasus Knight
Sergeant
896 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 5:07 PM |
| My thoughts on this...
Yes Please. I'd love to face this band. Only 5 activations (even if they are all strong activations), and I can meet it point for point in most categories. The Gauth's paralysis rays would remain troublesome, but beyond that I can meet that band pretty handily with CG. I would be absolutely thrilled to face that band and would be confident I could beat it. Each particular figure in it is intimidating, but I'd get to pick when and where I fight, making favorable matches within the scope of the game. | |
- Irrationally Fanatical Champion of Pegasus-mounted cavalry
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My trading thread: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=19725 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
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fallaxdraco
Skirmisher
6 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 5:16 PM |
| | Okay, Okay, I get the picture. Drop the Khumat for a Helmed Horror and 2 Kobold Miners, bringing it up to 7 activations and 200 points. Though if I wanted to use Shuluth instead of Naga/Gauth I would free up some upgrade points... I need to playtest that a little bit. | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 5:28 PM |
| Gauth isn't as hot in todays metagame.
Immune paralysis - Helmed Horror, Marut, Helmed Horror,
With the Dragon Shrine and Couatl, the Fire eye ray isn't as scary either.
Wardrummer gives +4 saves to CE bands, meaning that many of the formerly very paralyzable CE beaters now fail saves on a 2 or less without the Naga, 4 with.
If you are set on LE, I'd look at the Efreet for ranged support, as even if his spells are useless, he can still hit well. Check out the Rakshasa as a commader as well. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 03/29/2006 5:57 PM |
| Khumat might be amusing in Epic to a degree but for it's points it looses out to pretty much every other LE beater. Sure if you're up against low saves CG that isn't playing Frenzied Berserkers then you might do okay. Otherwise you're hoping that they will fail a lot of morale checks. He might be tough and hard to hit but the limits for the creature are too great.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Thespian
Sergeant
442 Posts
Lethbridge, Alberta
| | 03/29/2006 6:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by iluvxtina
I like the khumat very much but i must to admit its not a tier 1 piece.For his cost,hes not so powerful...only one attack ans only 20 damage.And the morale save is only against medium or smaller.The helmet horror is better in everything and with the gauth is fearsome. Even if you meet inmune fire creatures,you can paralize them or stun them and obliterate them with the horror.The dark naga is the best commander,indeed.I dislike the duergar champion.I like much more the large duergar and the chraal.And the zakya...I dont think he will be a number one but maybe....Ah,one more thing...Only 5 activations?do you want to be overwhelmed?man,6 at least.
Still though.....ask around to see how many bands feature more than 2 large minis and you might come up with less than 10%. It is generally a bad idea to include too many large critters because they can't move or base with as mush ease. A figure like this one was actually not that great in sealed, but I would say it starts to look MUCH more attractive in constructed.
In the end though, it is a BAD idea to bring it to the table with only 5 activations. In the right mix, this guy is going to be a heck of a threat. If he can even make a couple of guys route, that would be great.
The thing that keeps it from tier one is that the metagame is so heavy on constructs and fearless right now. If it weren't for that...you might just see him in some very successful builds. | |
A wand of silence means never having to say you're sorry.
CHAMPION OF THE ANNIS HAG!!! | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2023 Posts
Portland OR
| | 03/29/2006 6:21 PM |
| Khumat really really needs to do 25dmg or at least magic dmg to have any effect...i keep trying to build something worthwhile around him and am completely underwhelmed each time...one nice thing i saw however is with a night hag those ac and hp last a long long time...hexblade would be nice too but he's pricey too and it is saveable...lots of points for little offensive output unforunately...now if LE had snakes swiftness i bet you could do a lot with this guy...2 attacks at 20 and 2 moral checks a round will add up..
on a side note check out the similarities between the khumat and thaskor...makes thaskor look silly...funny that outsiders are some of the toughest critters in dnd and weakest in ddm...each of them needs at least spell res or resistances...thaskor should probably have dr, spell res, and resistances for his cost looking at khumat... | |
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Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5103 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 03/30/2006 2:12 AM |
| Khumat seemed to work rather well in constructed (of the top 8 four were running Khumat) but I just can't see him working well in constructed. As has been pointed out damage is too low (non-magic) and his special ability is limited. I hate to beat the Helmed Horror comparison to death but for 6 points less you get a LOT more bang for your buck (sacrificing a mere 5 points of damage per swing).
If Khumat was closer to 40 points he'd probably see a good amount of play. | |
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rondom
Skirmisher
42 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 5:20 AM |
| | The Khumat is only 70% the cost efficiency of a HH, and the other figures are worse. Against multiple HH you would surely lose. | |
Rondom
Remember - if you can use all your figures it's 'Full' - if not it's 'Restricted'. Anything that cycles figures out of use in a planned timetable is 'Planned Obsolesence'. Never accept your enemy's terms! | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 10:34 AM |
| If I were to run a Khumat, I'd almost always run it with Shuluth.
However, IMO there are better beater choices to go in a Shuluth warband, so the Khumat remains a dubious choice for me. | |
Rhane
"The focus is sharp in the city..."
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XAos
Underboss
2403 Posts
London
| | 03/30/2006 10:41 AM |
| Khumat would be nearly useless against fearless warbands {HH, FB, Marut+Watcher}
And none too effecitve against tiefling+wardrummer combos.
So at least 4 tier-1/2 warbands can ignore the Khumats "bite". Thats more than enough to keep it out of tier-1.
The solution to your early problems with HH V's DR+fire resistance. Is to give the HH magic weapons. {Kobold Sorcerer, Dark moon monk}
2 HH with magic weapons will easily kill a Balor or similar figures.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 11:22 AM |
| The khumat is a figure that is tier 1, but is currently in a meta that pushes him down to tier 2. Pre-Underdark, he would have been wicked (maybe angelfire), but right now he is a solid figure that will destroy some bands and suffer against others. Don't discount him outright though, hes got the HP and AC to do well even with one attack. There are several figures right now that are right at the cusp but the current gamestate disrupts them alot.
I was testing
Raksasha
Duergar Champ x3
Khumat
Kobold Miner x3
it works fine, but again its going to win big, or lose big. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 11:43 AM |
| Yeah, I think it's a solid figure that may find a place in the future.
On a side note, I threw one against my 6th level PCs on Monday, and it tore them up! That thing is pretty nasty for CR8. | | | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 03/30/2006 6:14 PM |
| I like the Khumat. Haven't tested him yet, so haven't decided where I'll categorize him in the end, but if he's not tier one, he's very close.
I think that you improved your band when you swapped him in for the Helmed Horror in that band. On the other hand, there might be totally different changes that would improve the original build by more. If you keep the Khumat, and the same basic build, I'd strongly consider something like dropping the Gauth to another Duergar Champ for 2 more activations. I'd also consider experimenting with swapping the Zakya for a Chraal.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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