Temysry
Sergeant
514 Posts
    
 | | 04/05/2006 7:44 PM |
| Well, considering the HGBs will have taken 5 damage from furious spirit in round 1, you could use the trumpet archon to force them both to make morale checks before they make any attacks at all if you win initiative in round 2.
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A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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cerberuspuppy
Warrior
288 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 7:52 PM |
| That was an interesting idea, and one I considered briefly: If your hitter with reach has a much better attack bonus and/or if theirs has a low AC, you can put a fodder mini between them. The cover could really give something like the Sand Giant or Marut the edge.
That might even force the HGB to "waste" a swing on a MAA or some such, and against AC 19 or higher, he might actually miss. Wouldn't that suck? [:D] | |
Mine is an evil laugh! Muhahahaha!
-Wash, Firefly | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 04/05/2006 8:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
And at least one isn't a real morale save.
The Bronze Wrymling can produce this effect, though it is very risky given the DC against a HGB + Wardrummer.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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frogrodeo
Sergeant
706 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 8:19 PM |
| | Although it has a low probability of success, it would be pretty funny to catch both HGBs in a Bronze Wyrmling cone after your Gith Monk stuns the wardrummer... right near the exit squares on teleport shrine or dragon shrine [)] | |
Champion of Remorhaz, and the Mighty Goblin Frog Riders | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 04/05/2006 8:32 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
There is another way that's more risky, but flashier. Look at the pieces you typically ignore.
Trumpet Archon?
[)]
That's an expensive risk.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 8:33 PM |
| | Doesn't the bronze only cause it to move as if routing, but not actually cause a creature to route? | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 04/05/2006 8:36 PM |
| The Warpriest of Moradin is a nice response to the HGBx2 band that's running with a Drow Sergeant. That Drow isn't the toughest piece on the board, and if you can nab him early (or force your opponent to tuck him in a corner, keeping his HGBs out of command), then the Warpriest can work his magic.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 8:55 PM |
| | I agree the warpriest of Moradin seems built to be a highly random (wierd for LG) attempt to counter titans like the HGB. You really need a way to route, kill, stun, paralize...the commander/wardrummer riding along with the HGB. | |
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cerberuspuppy
Warrior
288 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 9:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kgradert13
quote:
Originally posted by cerberuspuppy
The CODA is pretty much the default LG commander, unless points are tight. Putting her right behind a large base is good. She can sit safe and heal while boosting AC.
I don't see the CoDA being played that often really. I choose to play the Cleric of Order and Couatl way before the CoDA. I would say I have even played the Cleric of Yondalla and Half-Orc Paladin more.
This is in part due to the local metagame. The CODA is pretty popular here. Most of us don't have the older stuff. (I still need to get a Cleric of Order.)
Command 7, two 30 point heals, the AC boost, and CFX all make the CODA pretty hard to pass up, and we often (but not always) use her unless there's a compelling reason not to. The most common of those is of course cost.
Another reason might be to get better synergy- some bands really need a damage boost, or other CFX like Couatl and VP, etc.
I have yet to play either the HOP or Warforged Cap, but I do think both are good.
How do you like combining the HOP with the Cleric of Order to get over that rating of 3?
At any rate, I don't think it's commanders that LG lacks. | |
Mine is an evil laugh! Muhahahaha!
-Wash, Firefly | |
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Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
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nasamonkey
Warrior
296 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 10:18 PM |
| and how is the WARPRIEST gonna fare against LE warbands???
???
[xx(]
and again...???
what about marut? while maybe more than 70% of the people are going to play HGB,tier 1 is tier 1,you will still see many of the previous builds and maybe a number playing counter HGB bands.
to me the warpriest = no no.. cos price wise its bad.squishy unreliable tech piece.i wouldnt rely on the Commander effect.
and if good players with the HGB is gonna make it easy for you to assassinate their commander...it could be a wishful thought.
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 10:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Mordy / Warpriest of Moradin / Standardbearer builds ... let's see how long that takes. Rolls over and dies to other bands, but I think it'd do well against non-fearless meat builds.
I was looking at that combo earlier today. No way would it work in a million years but it'd be fun to try.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 04/06/2006 12:20 AM |
| it'd have to be epic for it to have a chance.
what I don't like about the warpriest is paying for neutralize poison. I sure hope there's something in the future to make me even stop to glance at that.
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Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
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DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/06/2006 1:17 PM |
| Finally the Warpriest is getting some attention (after I posted on him twice much earlier in this thread [)]).
Yes, paying for Neutralize Poison is disappointing (why that spell for a WarPriest? Why not Searing Light?). However the Warpriest provides a lot of other appealing features in addition to Moradin's Warcry.
- Commander 6
- Auto damage in the form of Deific Vengeance
- +1 AC & Saves for your band
- A very respectable melee and ranged attack for 15 Magic
- After casting Divine Protection he is almost Fearless (failing only on a natural 1)
- Oh yeah, and he has CLOSE WOUNDS!
So in my book the Warpriest isn't a no-no, but a yes-yes, especially in an increasingly CE environment even w/ the WarDrummer. Coupled with a Couatl, some Justice Archons and a Rikka (to assassinate key opposing minis), and you've got a Tier 1 to be reckoned with. | |
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"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 1:24 PM |
| The Warpriest is in no way Tier 1 at this point in time. Sure, it might do okay in a Warband against CE armies, particularly Hill Giant ones, but what happens when you go against an LG or LE build? His commander effect is interesting, but difficult to take advantage with the tools that LG has available to it at this time.
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I am not gone. | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 1:30 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
and how is the WARPRIEST gonna fare against LE warbands???
???
[xx(]
and again...???
what about marut? while maybe more than 70% of the people are going to play HGB,tier 1 is tier 1,you will still see many of the previous builds and maybe a number playing counter HGB bands.
And this is exactly why I dropped consideration of a Warpriest/Monk combo. It doesn't help at all vs. the weaknesses that the Monks already have, and actually makes things worse in these matchups.
It does give you a near auto-win vs. single commander, non-fearless warbands, though - assuming you get a reasonably useful map. | |
Rhane
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djtool
Sergeant
584 Posts
Crystal MN, USA
| | 04/06/2006 2:38 PM |
| thinking out of my rear (as I often do) your best warpriest build that I can think of right now is:
warpriest
gith monk x 2
LEE x 2
15pts fodder
map: dragon shrine
this provides you with two fast guys with avenues to get to a commander
the LEE's can take 2 swings from a giant and take only 5 dmg from chraals and HH's *if* you can camp the shrines. Plus if you get stuck on teleport temple they clog lanes and burrowing is more useful. much more usable with +7 to their save.
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Champion of: Brain in a Jar | |
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 2:55 PM |
| | Two gith monks without a young master or going to have difficulty taking out many commanders. | |
I am not gone. | |
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sienar
Sergeant
640 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 4:44 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by robbdaman
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Mordy / Warpriest of Moradin / Standardbearer builds ... let's see how long that takes. Rolls over and dies to other bands, but I think it'd do well against non-fearless meat builds.
I was looking at that combo earlier today. No way would it work in a million years but it'd be fun to try.
R~
What it needs is Elminster to bring the Standardbearer and Warpriest into CG, and then combine with Voice of Battle or Warchanter. That leaves ~240 points (~40 if you are going with Epic Mordy or Elminster - I'd go with Epic Mordy to keep that commander effect around as long as possible) for three figures to try and keep that lot alive.
Edit - Realized most people are probably talking 200. I've got Epic on my mind, seeing as I've got an Epic tourney tomorrow. | |
[http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user_id=22] | |
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DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/06/2006 7:43 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by djtool
thinking out of my rear (as I often do) your best warpriest build that I can think of right now is:
warpriest
gith monk x 2
LEE x 2
15pts fodder
map: dragon shrine
this provides you with two fast guys with avenues to get to a commander
Or Justice Archons instead of one or both LEEs. The Gith Monks don't necessarily have to KILL the opposing commanders, just stun them to put the other minis out of command. AND if you used some of that 15 points for a Standardbearer... I'm just sayin, it's a good band. | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 8:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by sienar
What it needs is Elminster to bring the Standardbearer and Warpriest into CG...
While I admit that the Standardbearer often pretends to be a commander, I don't think that this is quite enough for Elminster to bring him on over. [)] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
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Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 8:36 AM |
| | The Standardbearer is a spellcaster and can thus be brought over by Elminster. | |
I am not gone. | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 8:40 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
The Standardbearer is a spellcaster and can thus be brought over by Elminster.
Errm, are you sure on that? LG commanders was his thing, no? The only spellcaster warband builder that springs to mind is the Red Wizard for CE, but I could be wrong. [:D] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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memphisto
Warrior
213 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 9:01 AM |
| | IIRC the Standarbearer can be under command by Elminster during warband construction and is therefore considered a commander. This is why he can be brought into CG via Elminster, not because he's a spellcaster. | |
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sienar
Sergeant
640 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 9:53 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by memphisto
IIRC the Standarbearer can be under command by Elminster during warband construction and is therefore considered a commander. This is why he can be brought into CG via Elminster, not because he's a spellcaster.
Right. We had a lengthy discussion on this over on the Wizards boards. | |
[http://www.hordelings.com/frontend/profiles/profile.php?user_id=22] | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 10:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by memphisto
IIRC the Standarbearer can be under command by Elminster during warband construction and is therefore considered a commander...
[:0]Really? Well, slap my fanny and call me Susan! Ain't that a nifty thing?!
I stand corrected. [:D] Thank you kindly for the info.
Forewarned is forearmed and fourarmed is kinda freaky lookin'. | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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XAos
Underboss
2403 Posts
London
| | 04/07/2006 10:11 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by guyf
Don't overlook Alusair, particularly when you're running that many flyers. Do the math to see how much a single JA charge for +10 damage affects the number of hits you need on an HGB.
Alusair does even better with Sacred Watchers.
It's a lot easier to charge when you have Incorporeal, and can "clip the edge" of walls[:D]
quote:
Originally posted by nasamonkey
and if good players with the HGB is gonna make it easy for you to assassinate their commander...it could be a wishful thought.
Sacred Watchers are almost impossible to keep away from a commander, no matter how competant the opposing player is.
And Dual HGB warbands have really squishy commanders. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 10:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
I'm waiting for someone to suggest Mordy / Warpriest of Moradin / Standardbearer builds ... let's see how long that takes. Rolls over and dies to other bands, but I think it'd do well against non-fearless meat builds.
Hmmm... Naah. Too balanced. Not gimicky enough. What's even goofier, but along these same lines?
How about :
100 Elminster
049 Warpriest of Moradin
029 Voice of Battle
007 Ragnara, Psychic Warrior
004 Lidda, Halfling Rogue
008 Elf Warrior (x2)
003 Xeph Warrior
8 @ 200 pts.
What? Don't like the thought of Ragnara being your main tank? Alright. Fair enough. I guess we could always do this in epic and magnify the error :
100 Elminster
049 Warpriest of Moradin
030 War Chanter
010 Standardbearer - To spread the joy.
143 Epic Rikka - 'Cause she's so good.
052 Frenzied Beserker - For the Aura of Fear 2.
098 Archmage - So Elminster can steal some useful spells.
018 Nebin - 'Cause he fits.
8 @ 500 pts.
Maybe trade in the Standardbearer / Nebin for Aramil / GCR & Wolf?
In any case, if you go up against someone that uses fearless troops you're so dead it's not even funny... OK, it's a little bit funny. [:)] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 6:56 PM |
|
Dwarf Artificier???!!??
Stumble onto onto the usefulness this fellow, when having some friendly games with some friends.Where Rust construct made JAs hit HH and Marut at a more frequent rate.
I was playing the below band on Dragon Shrine.Althought manage to win both games but still had some doubts. As it not might not work if I was facing more that two HHs. Had some hard times against Marut too as it took out my bodyguard in a round of combat[xx(].Thoughts on him????
Justice Archonx2
Justicator
Warforged Bodyguard
Cleric of Lathander
Dwarf Artificer
Timber wolf
Men-At-Arm
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"HA! Activate take 10 and you cant hit me."
"Once I start, I will not flater."
"BLOOD make the grass grow!" | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 04/08/2006 9:03 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Goldmoon
Had some hard times against Marut too as it took out my bodyguard in a round of combat[xx(].Thoughts on him????
On the Warforged Bodyguard? He's a nice piece that has to stay tucked away if it's ever unsafe to expose him. In a way, he can turn into a wasted activation. But, if he keeps other pieces in the game for longer, then it's not so wasted after all.
The key, I think, is to find a way to get all his hit points' worth of guarding used up in a game, and then, to heal him and get more.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 04/08/2006 9:21 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
quote:
Originally posted by Goldmoon
Had some hard times against Marut too as it took out my bodyguard in a round of combat[xx(].Thoughts on him????
On the Warforged Bodyguard? He's a nice piece that has to stay tucked away if it's ever unsafe to expose him. In a way, he can turn into a wasted activation. But, if he keeps other pieces in the game for longer, then it's not so wasted after all.
The key, I think, is to find a way to get all his hit points' worth of guarding used up in a game, and then, to heal him and get more.
Dave
I readily agree on the Warforged Bodyguard. He will have a big bullseye on him - he's a fairly easy 32 kill points at AC 17 for the big hitters (Marut, HGB). Plus, like Vrecknidj said he becomes a wasted activation when your trying to keep him safe. I'd rather have another attacker especially if you need a second or third attacker.
Cheers.
[)] | |
Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Goldmoon
Sergeant
986 Posts
| | 04/08/2006 7:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vrecknidj
quote:
Originally posted by Goldmoon
Had some hard times against Marut too as it took out my bodyguard in a round of combat[xx(].Thoughts on him????
On the Warforged Bodyguard? He's a nice piece that has to stay tucked away if it's ever unsafe to expose him. In a way, he can turn into a wasted activation. But, if he keeps other pieces in the game for longer, then it's not so wasted after all.
The key, I think, is to find a way to get all his hit points' worth of guarding used up in a game, and then, to heal him and get more.
Dave
He was tucked away, he was hiding behind mine justicator soaking up damage[)]. But the damage from marut was just too much to take. 60 in a round[B)], just blew mine bodyguard away!!!
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"HA! Activate take 10 and you cant hit me."
"Once I start, I will not flater."
"BLOOD make the grass grow!" | |
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