| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Astinex
Skirmisher
24 Posts
    
 | | 04/04/2006 7:40 PM |
| I thought I’d take a moment and share with you my recent observations while playing one of the famed SoCal Crew. On March 25th I had the honor of playing a friendly game against Dwayne, (Tried – Maxminis / Tried - WotC), who was in the area to pick up some materials from Peter Lee, (Temperance – Maxminis / Peter Lee – WotC). I was happy to have a chance to test my metal against someone form outside the area and especially glad to play someone from the reputedly strong SoCal community. Both Dwayne and I had experimental/fun bands, (listed below). I won’t get into the details of the match because truth be told I don’t remember much after the first round or two, as I’ll explain below. We both choose the Teleport Temple Map, (I’ll get into this as well), and began our match for fun. Dwayne ended with a decisive victory over me, leaving me with only the beholder left and him ahead on tile points.
Okay, why write this article if I’m not going to discuss the match? Well I wanted to explain, what I feel, was a much more important lessen I learned from the match itself. Yes, Dwayne is a great strategist and I’m sure he could pilot any band with great skill. But, this alone isn’t what makes him, or obviously the others from SoCal, so competitive. As I mentioned above I didn’t recall much after the 2nd round. I began piloting my band the way I had practiced and calculated was the most effective way. But I immediately noticed something about Dwayne. He was absent mindedly, at first, discussing strategies with me. Later as I lost concentration on the game and focused on Dwayne’s play style he would actively discuss “best options” with me. I think Dwayne got the impression I might be upset with his advice as he apologized for giving it, but in truth I was eating the information up. Not only that, but he wasn’t really telling me what was “best”, he was asking if what he saw was the “best”. I was also keenly aware of an insight that popped into my head. Dwayne was relaxed and playing “his normal way”. What I mean by this is it was pretty obvious to me that this is the way the SoCal community plays. I was blown away by the mental picture of the SoCal crew hanging out at the FLGS and playing each other. Only instead of concentrating solely their own band, they will pilot both bands as if almost playing solitaire together and discussing “best” strategies with each other. On top of this I can imagine any member of the community not currently in another game, would be watching over shoulders and adding their own strategy advice.
Folks, this is devastatingly effective practice. In many collectable games people hoard their strategies, and builds like jewels hoping to gain and keep an advantage. Others will discuss strategy outside a game, but not often during one. The truth is, regardless of how big a customizable game becomes there is always going to be a limited number of effective builds. Yes this number grows, but as the game grows so does the number of people formulating those builds. In a nutshell, if you can see the “awesome” build, chances are someone else does too. True competitors in these types of games don’t win on their builds alone. They win by practicing a lot and more importantly planning on how to overcome their build’s weaknesses should they arise. When SoCal practices openly discussing strategy, they add their collective mental power to come up with very effective strategies for many types of bands.
Some people might argue that doing this exposes your weaknesses and play style to your local competitors making it harder for you to compete locally. The question I ask of you then is, is the local scene the only one you wish to participate in? If so, very well, this play style is probably not for you. But if your looking to play on a national level, this play style helps ensure your local community is the national competition, as has been exhibited by the SoCal community.
I plan on trying to change my play style to more closely match Dwayne’s. I just hope I can find others locally who will do so also.
NAME (Maxminis / Wotc)
Peter Moreau (Astinex / Astinex)
LE Behold Hextor
Beholder
Aspect of Hextor
Skeletal Equiceph
Snig + Gob Skirmishers
Warrior Skeleton x3
200pts 11 Activations
Dwayne (Tried / Tried)
CG
Drizzt, Drow Ranger
Ulmo Lightbringer
Aramil, Adventurer
Timber Wolf
+Other Tech/Fodder
Teleport Temple Map:
I know there has been a lot of debate about what this map has done for the game. I don’t wish to discuss this in this thread. But I will say I choose to practice on this map as much as I can, because IMO it is the most difficult map to master. | |
Astinex
"In my experience [jerks] are pretty rare. If everyone you meet is an [jerk], chances are it isn't them." -William Knite | |
|
Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 9:24 PM |
| Hehe, I don't know whether or not I can claim credit for starting this habit in our group, but I do know that I've done this sort of thing in tournaments by accident upon occassion!
However, when we normally get together and play, it's almost always a tournament, and there's not too much talking of that sort . . . until after the game. I guess sometimes I'll point out a mistake mid-game, if I don't think it's going to affect anything the rest of the game. On the more rare occassions when we get together just to practice it'll happen during the games certainly.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 9:45 PM |
| Thanks for the kind words, Peter. I really had a great time in Chicago. (and in Madison.) The folks were all friendly, and skilled players to boot.
With respect to this playstyle -
Smyrin and I (and Dr. X) tend to play this way when we play in San Diego - during non competitive games. We play both sides, while we play one, and it gives us a wider view on the game.
Dagni and I often talk out loud, even in competitive play when we face each other - when the play is obvious, we will sometimes crunch numbers out loud, and have figured out the best play - this is most common in the endgame, with a die roll commonly deciding the match. Often, we will point out what we perceive to be an error by our opponent on the very next turn (a happy medium between exploiting the missed play, and teaching each other.) - but if not, we certainly bring it up immediately after the game, when we do our post-mortem. I remember a particular matchup against where he detailed a missed opportunity that could have changed a lopsided loss into a runaway win. The object is to learn if each game was lost on the warband, or on the play. (or, once in a blue moon, purely on dice.) By doing this, we both learn the ins and outs of the matchup. We are less concerned with whether we won, usually, and more concerned with - "would we have won if that band was played optimally."
FYI - I went 1-2 last weekend with a band I was very happy with, and which everyone liked, but which I played very poorly. I could easily have seen the band go 3-0. Sigh. Still so much learning to do... | |
Let it be. | |
|
Eiznoragad
Sneak
142 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 9:54 PM |
| | Our local group, though not on the SoCal competitive level, plays that way. We do what we can to learn from and teach each other. I get that general feel from the DDM community as a whole, which is why I enjoy playing this game so much. It's not just a great game, but a great community. | |
D&D Minis wednesdays at 6pm in Charlotte, NC at Underground Games. Sanctioned tournament third Sat. of every month. Dagaronzie on WotC Boards. | |
|
Grasshoff
Skirmisher
21 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 10:14 PM |
| | Yup. Playing with the folks in the SoCal group is really fun. A match turns into a collaborative problemsolving session at the drop of a hat. | |
| |
|
Temperance
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 04/04/2006 11:30 PM |
| | They all scare me. [)] | |
Champion of the common Flying Monkey (Fez optional)
Peter Lee on the WotC board
BAD WOLF
| |
|
zdrake
Warrior
279 Posts
Albany, CA (near Berkeley)
| | 04/05/2006 2:44 AM |
| | I definitely think this is a great way to improve. Yes, you may lose some advantage against the small group you play against regularly. But all in your group who help each other will gain great advantages when you play against others. | |
Champion of Acererak the Demi-Lich (w/ Epic Card)
D&D minis gathering in Berkeley, CA at Games of Berkeley (every other Tuesday, and sometimes every Tuesday.) | |
|
DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/05/2006 12:51 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by zdrake
I definitely think this is a great way to improve. Yes, you may lose some advantage against the small group you play against regularly. But all in your group who help each other will gain great advantages when you play against others.
Ecologists know this as "kin-selection". By helping those close to you, you are also likely to succeed. So-Cal is strong, but so is No-Cal. Play, Discuss, Repeat to Bring the Beat! ΖD] | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 1:06 PM |
| ahhhh, the tension-filled build-up to the California Open.....
What do ecologists call it when one butterfly that is good to eat mimicks the appearance of another that is actually toxic to predators?
Cuz the whole norcal game - starts here in socal.
(The trash-talking has begun. Weigh-ins on Friday. [)]) | |
Let it be. | |
|
DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/05/2006 1:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tried
ahhhh, the tension-filled build-up to the California Open.....
What do ecologists call it when one butterfly that is good to eat mimicks the appearance of another that is actually toxic to predators?
Cuz the whole norcal game - starts here in socal.
(The trash-talking has begun. Weigh-ins on Friday. [)])
Who won the last California Open, again?... Who'd he beat?... Yeah, we're not worried [^] | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 1:48 PM |
| | Its always a little easier to meta when your opponent tells you in advance what he's going to be playing, though, isn't it? [)] | |
Let it be. | |
|
Slade7170
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 2:15 PM |
| Batesian Mimicry is one version of that (as opposed to Mullerian Mimicry where an animal mimics a dangerous animal for protection, like the hoverfly looking like a yellowjacket).
Hmmm, to make this on topic. good luck to all of you, looking very forward to the report.
I, unfortunately, cannot make it down that far until November (Gencon SoCal). I will be at KublaCon over Memorial Day weekend in the Bay Area, thats about it. Well, maybe qualifiers... though not sure how well I would stack up against the oft-playing juggernaut of California. might be fun to find out if I can get the slackers here to play more often.
Best of luck!
Slade7170
quote:
Originally posted by Tried
ahhhh, the tension-filled build-up to the California Open.....
What do ecologists call it when one butterfly that is good to eat mimicks the appearance of another that is actually toxic to predators?
Cuz the whole norcal game - starts here in socal.
(The trash-talking has begun. Weigh-ins on Friday. [)])
| |
| |
| DDM Constructed Champion 2006
derry
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 4:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DinoBen
Who won the last California Open, again?... Who'd he beat?... Yeah, we're not worried [^]
http://www.jugenstil.com/caddmopen/first/reports.html
Norcal did well at the First California DDM Open, but that had a lot to do with the Socal guys getting paired against each other early. A group of six will be traveling from Norcal to play the Second California DDM Open this Saturday. We hope to do well but many strong players will be in attendance. (5 of the top 8 from the last Constructed Championship, and both Constructed and Limited Champions.)
http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15693
We definitely have a strong group here in Norcal. We also try to point out opportunities and oversights during and after matches. I am very hopeful we do well competitively, but I am certain we will all have lots of fun and really enjoy the hospitality of the Socal crew. I and the rest of the guys are really looking forward to this weekend. | |
Member of the Low Post Count but High Post Content Society | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 4:26 PM |
| Michael,
this type of polite redress may actually be how everyone feels (including us!) however, we need to get some play here. We need to build this up for the masses.
How about a "you're goin' down!" or a " I'm gonna own you, bizich!" so that we can foster that "heavyweight championship" feel.
Possibly a "aren't you still sore from last time, sweetie?" -something like that. [)]
(oh - FYI - Derry is the defending California State Champion). | |
Let it be. | |
| 2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 4:35 PM |
| I had a freakin' blast at the last CA Open. It was a lot of driving but it was so totally worth it. Yeah, Derry beat me in the final game, but the good news is that there's always a "next time" -- in this case, the next time is this saturday!
On the topic of the thread, I think it can't be better stated than this:
quote:
True competitors in these types of games don’t win on their builds alone. They win by practicing a lot and more importantly planning on how to overcome their build’s weaknesses should they arise. When SoCal practices openly discussing strategy, they add their collective mental power to come up with very effective strategies for many types of bands.
This is a true formula for success, and it's by no means limited to SoCal. | |
Read my championship tournament report.
Successful trades:
xBrendanx | Cha0tic G0od | ThatOneGuy | BrazenWood | Finley | Arris | Drift x2 | Neonmage | Cthulu's Librarian | Kalvos | PatEllis15 | Paradox1995 | Rhane | Gildogg | Darthrau | Vrecknidj x2 | erian_7 | Octavius Drowslayer x2 | stheis | Garate | thenameless | Lucky_ksu | ckissee | Corim Danex | Schooly_D | Username | |
|
DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/05/2006 5:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tried
Michael, this type of polite redress may actually be how everyone feels (including us!) however, we need to get some play here. We need to build this up for the masses.
How about a "you're goin' down!" or a " I'm gonna own you, bizich!" so that we can foster that "heavyweight championship" feel. Possibly a "aren't you still sore from last time, sweetie?" -something like that. [)]
(oh - FYI - Derry is the defending California State Champion).
I do apologize to the rest of the NorCal crowd if I seem to have stepped out of line by fronting for us. I actually won't be able to attend this weekend at SoCal. [V]
I am looking forward to putting my minis where my mouth is at the (soon too be announced) KublaCon tournament in late May. For the record, I placed somewhere between 5th and 8th at the first California Open. Now back to what's important!
"We're gonna beat you so bad, your children are gonna be born bruised!"
Ah, the joys of trash talk! [:D] I may not be going to SoCal for the tourney, but I'm enjoying this immensly! | |
Champion of all things Athasian
"Don't sing it - Bring it!" | |
| DDM Constructed Champion 2006
derry
Warrior
268 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 6:01 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by DinoBen
I do apologize to the rest of the NorCal crowd if I seem to have stepped out of line by fronting for us. I actually won't be able to attend this weekend at SoCal. [V]
Ah, the joys of trash talk! [:D] I may not be going to SoCal for the tourney, but I'm enjoying this immensly!
Don't apologize just because I am too wussy to have a backbone. . .
Although this is mostly attended by Californians, the California DDM Open is a great place for players from all over to come. Not only is it great practice for the local qualifiers, where else can you go to say you whupped up on many of the top players in the game?
Plus the prize support for this Socal-hosted version is very impressive and gets close to the prizes give at Championships. | |
Member of the Low Post Count but High Post Content Society | |
| 
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 6:32 PM |
| Fly my rear-end out there and I'll play ...
At the qualifier last year my most enjoyable match was in the elimination rounds against lalato. We both played each other's band, analyzing the situation, etc. The pressure was off; we'd each qualified. As such we were able to mess around and discuss the best way to play, strategies, etc. from tile-placement foward. This is the same model that the folks in Boulder used as well when I had the pleasure to visit them ... and when I play casually (which is rare these days) this is exactly how I play.
And I think many of areas play this way as well. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 6:34 PM |
| yeah, just to clarify things, we are a big happy family in CA. The talk is just a sibling rivalry from two of the major play groups. As the qualifiers near, we look at how we can place the greatest number of californians into the championships In a casual, laid back, California way, of course.
What Michael says is true with respect to the tourney. If you live within driving distance (cough -phoenix/tucson/vegas- cough - or closer - cough bakersfield -cough) and can find the time to come, I promise a top-notch tourney with high-level - but friendly- (!!!) play.
| |
Let it be. | |
|
Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 6:38 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Fly my rear-end out there and I'll play ...
Hmmmm. Do you live anywhere near civilization? | |
Let it be. | |
|
Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 04/05/2006 7:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by derry
Not only is it great practice for the local qualifiers, where else can you go to say you whupped up on many of the top players in the game?
Umm, want me to list all the places I've done this? [)]
To go with the statistician's version of smack-talk, let me just note that I'm undefeated in Constructed since Wardrums came out. Add in Sealed, from the Winter Fantasy prerelease on I think I'm 21-2 in sanctioned games.
NorCal managed to pull out a close one at home last time, but now they're coming into OUR house! It's time for them to learn how hard it is to win on the road. (Can you tell I watch too much sports?)
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| |
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |