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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
    
 | | 04/06/2006 9:53 PM |
| Not sure if this is even a viable build, but i wanted to try something with high activations...
Orog Warlord 71
(brings these two)
Orc Barbarian or Raider (not sure which is better i think raider is atm but advice requested)
Orc Warrior
Snig 20
3x goblin guys (which ones are good for 3 points)
Chraal x3 105
Orc Warrior 3 (left over one point but i dont know of a good 4 point guy
Is there enough meat in this bad to win...seems to me that HH band might really mess me up cause of the fire damage...and could it take out a coautl/marut band... | |
More trade references:
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Nate_666
Sergeant
801 Posts
Midwest
| | 04/06/2006 10:13 PM |
| | there is a new thread like this named something like "High Activation Warband" it should be in the first 2 pages of the forums if you wanna look it up, | |
I am a nerd, originality and strangeness are good. Blind conformity and stupidity are unforgiveable. All else said, DnD FTW!!
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scruffydude7
Underboss
1196 Posts
Rock Hill, SC
| | 04/06/2006 11:00 PM |
| One point to make note of, the Orog brings in Orc minions, he doesn't have warband building: Orcs. So you couldn't have that last Orc Warrior. I'd probably put a Kobold Miner in the mix for a potential round 1 tile grabber.
It looks pretty sturdy to me, especially with the current Hill Giant Barbarian craze. I think that I would personally use a little more variety, though. I'd probably use at least a Duergar Champion in place of one of the Chraals. This will also allow another 3 pointer, or a beefier single weenie.
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Champion of the Revenant
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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 04/06/2006 11:45 PM |
| orog says orc of any faction actually, so he can bring in any named orc...but yeah i would have to put a different other guy in there with my extra 4 points...
but if i went with a duerger champ that would give me 6 extra points, and i could place two 3 pointers...giving me
Orog Warlord 71
orc barb/raider + orc warrior
Snig 20
goblin x3
Chraal x2 34
Duerger Champ x1 32
3 point dudes (whatever they should be
that would be 12 activations
Strat would probably let the guy go first, keep alot of the little guys back in a corner protected once he activates out move up the 4 hitters chraal x2, orog, and dueger champ -- perhaps move snig up as well (my understanding is that if he dies the minions stay alive) and then snig can try to wack people out with his ranged attack if he isnt in risk to get based by a flier) -- the orc barb or raider is probably ok to move forward too i would guess, he is a decent hitter...or they can move along the back lines to try to flank and grab victory points from behind, while the 3 pointers just sit around and waste their activations...is snig too many points to risk moving forward? | |
More trade references:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=566273 | |
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EldritchSoul
Warrior
324 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 12:06 AM |
| | what scruffydude was referring to were the orc warriors. the orog's minions can be of any faction, but other members of his warband still must remain lawful evil. | |
Champion of Dracotaur- Vindicated!
T32 | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 04/07/2006 2:33 AM |
| @ dapuma
the chraal is 35 points and the Duergar Champion 33 but your warband seems nice. | |
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Proud Owner of the "Aura of cursed dice" | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 9:02 AM |
| I know that ChrisGroves won't like it... and I can't blame him. Heck, even I don't particularly like it. But Dapuma, you asked for it. Here's a band inspired by the figures you selected. I had considered a similar band earlier, but eventually rejected it as too twitchy... too prone to commander assasination or poor match-ups :
71 Orog + minions
105 Chraal (x3)
15 Dark Moon Monk
09 Kobold Miner (x3)
8+2 @ 200 pts.
Will it win you tournaments? Nope. But it sure will win you at least some of your matches. [:)] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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Zozo
Warrior
218 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 10:34 AM |
| | Well, if you want to go all out, try to add a grim necromancer. He can summon 2 more figures for you. [:P] Snig+Orog+Necromancer+minions+5filler= 15 activations. [XX(] | |
Champion of the Ixitxachitl | |
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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 04/07/2006 11:39 PM |
| What matchups will be particularly bad for it...quad HH seems like it would hurt with the fire damage...you would think i could out activate for an advantage...but i guess once you get inside and start swing the extra activations dont do a heck of a lot for you...unless you were going with a ranged band where you wanted to blast things and move away at the end of the turn...
i guess the point was try to manuever to let the chraal's get off their special attacks...
then it would be time to fight...
i keep going to back to the marut and and my loss against the hgb...seems to me that with 27 ac i dont need to fear the hgb...they need to fear marut...he is gonna hurt them and they only have a 25% chance of hitting him first time around and only a 5% chance hitting him a 2nd time -- should have been a bit more aggressive it seems | |
More trade references:
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 04/08/2006 8:44 AM |
| Being able to out-activate your opponent isn't, by itself, enough of an edge to push any band up into the winning position. You'll need more. In this case, the Orog's speed is a detriment. A band full of highly mobile pieces, that can circumvent the blocks that the Chraals provide, can harrass the Orog and give you some trouble.
There are a lot of fire-using bands out there that will get your Chraals down to their morale save rather rapidly. They're fairly high level, and the Orog's rating is good, but, with three of them, you're going to miss one of their saves with reliably frequency. On several maps, the speed of that routing Chraal is going to be devastating.
I think that the Orog can definitely command a top-4 band, but it's not going to be easy. And, I don't see the activation advantage as being all that great with your pieces.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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XAos
Underboss
2403 Posts
London
| | 04/08/2006 9:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dapuma
Strat would probably let the guy go first, keep alot of the little guys back in a corner protected once he activates out move up the 4 hitters chraal x2, orog, and dueger champ
This warband has a tactical problem, and your listing it as 4 beatiks (including Orog) emphasises that problem.
To use the Orog as a beatstik it has to get in the front line. And if it dies, 60% of the warband dies with it.[:0]
Basically this warband only has 103 points of tier-1/2 beatstiks and most current Tier-1 warbands have 176-200 points of Tier-1 beatstiks. So it is infact going to be over-matched nearly 2-to-1 in raw combat strength. Activation control is valuable, but it's not that valuable.
If you want to play a warband with lots of activations, try a Cultist of the Dragon (or 3) An interesting bit of maths shows a summoned Abysal Maw at 200% cost effective V's HGB's. i.e 3 Dragon Cultists (12 summoned Maws) will casully kill a HGB. With more activation control than you'll get any other way.
The HGB may have brought the Dragon Cultist back into the metagame...? | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 04/08/2006 10:17 AM |
| that is a pretty hilarious figure
if you played 3 of them, you could have 12 abysmal mals by round 2 running all over the place...only trouble would be finding a hiding spot for the summoners so they didnt get squished and the abysmals would go away...but i guess for 27 points each that is alot of figures to bring to the table 81 points gets you 12...then you still have 119 to put some beaters in there and a commander
I dont have the pieces to do that but it sounds like a very fun army
I think activation control is maybe not AS important as it is in Star Wars Minis is due to the lack of ranged attacks...the main point to activation control is so you can get your guy in position last and get a free shot off...then if you win initiative you could shoot...get back out of LoS and then you woudld have 40+ free damage (moving your big hitter like boba or aurra) in and out.
Without a viable ranged hitter to use that theory and weaken the opponent the activations dont mean as much...unless your going for a commander base attempt or victory area at the end of a turn, which is valuable but not as valuable as free damage | |
More trade references:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=566273 | |
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XAos
Underboss
2403 Posts
London
| | 04/08/2006 10:33 AM |
| Huge swarms of (up to 24) Summoned maws were Tier-1 in tournaments, just before they changed the rules to make "summoned critters" worth VP's. The maws were cost effective, but they wern't worth twice their VP's . Against HGB's however they are that cost-effective.
Tiefling Captain
HGB
3 Dragon Cultists
would be the "obvious" core to the warband.
As for the vunerability of the cultists, 12 Maws is a lot of protection. If your opponent doesn't have a breath attack the maws can form a solid wall infront of Cultists.
If their warband does have breath attacks, you might consider summoning Lemures. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Dapuma
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 04/08/2006 10:44 AM |
| would be fun to see the other players face when you went they saw what you were playing...i think the maws would be a death sentence against a GAS band or Marut band though...no way they could hit their ac unless you have a magic dice that lands on 20 every time :)
If i get the pieces i think i will run that army just for the fun of it though...those pieces dont look too expensive mainly commons
XAos are you the same guy from the SW Minis official forums? | |
More trade references:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=566273 | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 04/10/2006 3:46 AM |
| | dapuma I played gith monks last week on VASSAL and every enemy rolled 18 to 20's on attacks against the monks, it was like having an ac10 or something... | |
My Haves and wants:
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Proud Owner of the "Aura of cursed dice" | |
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XAos
Underboss
2403 Posts
London
| | 04/10/2006 5:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dapuma
XAos are you the same guy from the SW Minis official forums?
SW minis... I hav't posted on that in about 10 months. So I guess it's someone else.
quote:
Originally posted by Dapuma
unless you have a magic dice that lands on 20 every time :)
Tiefling Captain makes that, 19 or 20 to crit.
With 12 Maws you average one crit per round.
The serious answer is that high AC opponents is why the warband has one HGB.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
514 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 9:41 AM |
| Actually - if anyone is interested...
Assuming all 12 maws have the ability to attack, benefit from the Tiefling's CFX and NEEDS a crit, you will land at least one hit 72% of the time (for 30 non-magic damage).
In fact, they have an expected damage output of at least 36 regardless of the AC of their target(s). | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 04/10/2006 10:34 AM |
| Over the past couple of weeks i've toyed with an Orog / Snig combo on Vassal and it's done pretty well. The original builds with more chraals were too susceptible (depending on map selection) to 3 and 4 HH bands (because I'm not an awesome player, I could not protect Orog too well with just chraals). This does well against CE for sure and seems to dismantle GAS if piloted properly. Snig is not a beater, but he and his sniglets can drop significant damage on low AC chaotic units (when attacking with a flank and Orog's CFX the skirmishers are +7 for 10 dmg). Chraals, while suffering from fire damage of HH's, have DR5 to offset the double fire, leaving them taking 15 dmg per HH hit.
One version of the build uses the speed 9 Orc Brute for 8 pts, and an orc savage as the second minion (orc raider & orc warrior offers speed 9 also). This means you have a tile grabber - no need to burn 5 warband points on an OOC timber wolf (can add blue as ranged threat if desired). Also, the kobold miners are not needed, so Snig can shuffle even more 10 dmg minions around.
71 Orog with Orc Savage & Orc Brute
70 2x Chraals
20 Snig with 3 Goblin skirmishers
33 Duergar Champion
6 2x Goblin Skirmishers
200 pt & 12 Activations (instead of 13), but capitalizes on Snig with 5 Sniglets. Offers the DC as a utility piece. Major drawback is having Orog worth 141 pts and only 2 chraals to protect him. However, a swarm of sniglets can make a living shield pretty well, and HH's wasting 15 dmg swings to kill 5HP fodder is just fine.
While I have never done a constructed tournament, I've played this on Vassal vs. similar skill opponents. | |
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YRM_DM
Sergeant
905 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 3:34 PM |
| If you wanted to try to use more activations, you could also go with Artemis.
quote:
Artemis Entreri LE 89 Unique Ud 32/60 R
Orog Warlord LE 71 4 Minionsd Af 47/60 R
Mountain Orc (REMOVE) CE 0 Ab 55/60 C
Orc Warrior (REMOVE) CE 0 Ha 75/80 C
Snig, the Axe LE 20 0 Minionsb, Unique Ar 38/60 C
Goblin Skirmisher (REMOVE) LE 0 De 31/60 C
Goblin Skirmisher (REMOVE) LE 0 De 31/60 C
Goblin Skirmisher (REMOVE) LE 0 De 31/60 C
Kobold Soldier LE 6 Af 44/60 C
Blue LE 5 GoL 29/72 C
Goblin Skirmisher LE 3 De 31/60 C
Kobold Miner LE 3 Ud 38/60 C
Kobold Miner LE 3 Ud 38/60 C
Try to use the 14 activations and decent command rating to pull off up to 4 activations in a row for Artemis (including his big damage attack).
Vs some bands, it could be nasty... if you can snipe Rikka or Snig or Shuuluth or Soth or Eberk or some other unique with Artemis.
The original build is solid though, but, I've run the high-Activation Orog before. It does well, but, it really suffers vs speed bands which you'll see with the Gith Monks and Hill Giant Barbarians.
The Orog is just too slow to react, so he's always going to either be hit first, or just avoided.
Using Chraals with him is good, but, they have trouble hitting and damaging lots of other top units.
I'd practice a few games with some high activation varients though, you will beat a lot of people who don't bring the right bands or aren't prepared for your extreme activation control.
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