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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
    
USA
 | | 04/08/2006 8:29 PM |
| What about the Battle Plate Marshal?
CR=7 (very good - should get map choice & few ini's)
Speed=4 (slow)
CXF=Retaliate, adds +5 melee dam vs enemies that have moved - should help JA's)
GMA - add a dwarf or 2 two your warband to make use of
Therefore, what about a warband of:
Battle Plate Marshal 43
x2 JA's 64
Couatl 42 (for obvious reasons)
Gold Dwarf Solider 17
Sacred Watcher 18
War Forged Scout 8
Hill Dwarf Warriors 4
8 activations 196 points
Any thoughts?
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 04/08/2006 8:36 PM |
| | Its 9 activations. | |
I am not gone. | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 04/08/2006 8:41 PM |
| [:0] Fixed.
Thanks. Counting in my head and the cold medicine's got me a little groggy. :head bobs:
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 12:23 AM |
| Dunno. The biggest issue for me (apart from the wasted 4 pts, as I'm a cheap bugger) is that you are counting on the JA's doing all the heavy lifting. Their AB is OK vs. chaotic, but that is an awful lot of whooshes when facing lawful. Don't get me wrong, there aren't a great many more accurate options in that price range for LG. Maybe spend the left over 4 points to upgrade one of them to a WF Hero? He's +5 to hit and a bit tougher, if slower and lacking the Justice Strike.
Another thought, which I can't help due to my long-standing love affair with dwarves, is to use a Dwarf Samurai instead.
I also tend to throw Aramil into most good aligned bands, but here he would likely replace the Sacred Watcher (another beloved figure of mine). Tough call.
No matter what we tweak this with; you have to ask yourself the fundamental question of, "How will this band win matches?"
Point denial? Out damage your foe in the crushing embrace of melee? Assassinate his key figures and avoid the rest? Snipe until based and count on the damage inflicted to give you the edge? Use resilient blockers to keep them off your vulnerable ranged guys (Beholders/mages/archers)? Skirmish and maneuver until you win a key initiative and then engage? Plug up the breach with something fast and tough while the rest buff/shoot/heal/hope? Etc, etc.
Think about typical bands that you will run up against. You don't have to envision every component, just the highlights should be enough for this. How will you deal with a HGB or two? Evil Quads? Marut/Couatl (w/ maybe WFBG)? IF? LSD (offensive and defensive)? Kords? Beholder? Balor? Archmage? Etc.
If you have no idea what you'll do against things like this and/or don't think that you can handle half of them, then you might want to rethink your band design. You might need to shelve it altogether until a new piece/map/concept comes along. Maybe let it percolate at the back of your brain for a bit and come back to it.
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It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 2:21 AM |
| I'm not a fan of the battleplate marshal.
The challenges of using him are thus:
1. He's relatively fragile but he doesn't have much to do except throw himself into melee. If you play him as a backfield commander, you've wasted 14 points vis a vis the sword of Heironeous (who is also commander 7 and packs a cure moderate wounds, but isn't considered cost effective either). However, he doesn't have the hit points or the healing to survive for long in melee. 60 hit points doesn't seem that shy of the very survivable half-orc paladin's 70 hit points, but it is a very significant break point (and the half-orc is actually fearless instead of virtually fearless and packs a 20 point heal to boot).
At least the half-orc paladin has a 20 point cure to pass out.
2. Retaliate is a very situational damage bonus and encourages strategies that are otherwise suboptimal (attacking pieces that have already activated rather than pieces that have yet to activate). The extra damage doesn't come without a required strategic adjustment that reduces its effectiveness. Furthermore, your opponent can avoid the damage by controlling the order of his activations too.
3. Grant Dwarves Move Action is very limited. If it weren't for hill giants, I'd seriously consider trying out dwarf samurais, but with hill giant barbarians around, 70 hit points, AC 20, and 10 damage (15 with retaliate, etc) isn't enough for 32 points. Gold dwarf soldiers are also a good piece that suffers a lot from the hill giant barbarian being able to wax them in one hit. (And they also suffer from the more efficient axe soldier and arcanix guard as well). If LG had a way to bring the Duergar champion into their bands, it would be a solid piece, but LG doesn't have any dwarves who can really take advantage of GDMA right now.
4. The other problem that the battleplate marshall suffers from is that the aspect of moradin is a far better commander for dwarves. Stonelord and everything else the aspect brings to the table are great. If I was building a dwarf band, I'd use the aspect (or possibly the warpriest) instead of the marshal. | |
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Prince o the Raven Banner
Sergeant
606 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 2:43 AM |
| I'd agree with Basilisk on all that.
The BPM is waiting for his Gith Monk, if it ever arrives he will be fearsome.
I use him now but only in a dwarf theme band. GDMA is great, if the rest of the band is made up of dwarves, but wasted with everything else. His real saving grace is that at least with high save dwarves they become near fearless and the GDMA alieves their speed handicap. Unfortunately he does nothing to make the dwarves connect with what they swing at.
What becomes the beater? Aside from the Dwarf Ancestor Spirit what's the highest hit rate on a non-commander dwarf that can field in LG? For my collection it's the Gold Dwarves at +9/+8, not sure about the Samurai, but unless it's hitting at +14 or better it's not competitive. | |
Two trades completed!! (Krush,Hides From Hurricanes)
Champion of the Aaracokra
Herald Of Snig Goblin King | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 2:58 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Prince o the Raven Banner
...not sure about the Samurai, but unless it's hitting at +14 or better it's not competitive.
He's +12/+7 (10 magic) with Smite +5 (x2) | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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Janos M.
Underboss
1015 Posts
Hamburg / GErmany
| | 04/10/2006 3:28 AM |
| | I think the Battle plate Marshal is a cool mini, but in most cases the couatl, HoP or Cleric of DolArrah are better... | |
My Haves and wants:
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Janos_M.
Champion of Elan Psions
Proud Owner of the "Aura of cursed dice" | |
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LeClaire
Warrior
225 Posts
| | 04/10/2006 6:53 AM |
| Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm a supporter of the BPM. Situationally there are better commanders, but he's the only CR7 with a CFX damage boost. That ain't small potatoes. He's not a MBT (Main Battle Tank), but he isn't exactly ripe for the plucking by some quickling assassin. Sure he waddles, but don't all good dwarves? He's actually reasonably effective as the clean up hitter that finishes off the wounded enemy. He’s got a good synergy with dwarves, which is awesome… if you’re playing lots of dwarves, otherwise; not so much.
I will further admit that you have to adjust your tactics slightly when playing him, but so do your enemies. Suddenly they are not activating pieces because they don't want to let you do more damage to them. It's a two edged axe.
But all things are relative to his price. Just 43 points buys you a self-reliant, damage boosting, initiative winning, dwarf-moving, orc-beating, kill-stealing, weenie-cleaving, machine!
But I’m biased, 'cause I luves me my dwarves. [:D] | |
It is I, LeClaire!
So we have to champion something? Alright, I pick the mighty Flumph! | |
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