iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
    
Spain
 | | 04/15/2006 6:21 PM |
| -Today I have ran an uncommon warband :Sword archon+sacred watchers.
My strategy is simple:sacred watcher hits for 15 damage with the sword archon and the sword causes great amount of damage if combined with couatl,s snakes swifness.My oponent ran a LE warband with duergars (large and champion) and helmed horror and I lost the match.
I think I have lost because three archon,s attacks fails conceal,but in fact I ask myself if really the sword and the sacre watchers are really good. | |
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Wakalimasu
Sergeant
738 Posts
Calgary
| | 04/15/2006 6:42 PM |
| i found that sword archon's are very squishy :o
what 70 hp?
imagine running into a archmage and getting dismissed on the very first battle :o
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o_O | |
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warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 04/15/2006 7:47 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Wakalimasu
i found that sword archon's are very squishy :o
what 70 hp?
imagine running into a archmage and getting dismissed on the very first battle :o
Now that would be something...to run into an archmage...
more worrying to me running a sword achon would be something like the marut, which would kill the achon pretty darn fast, particularly when backed by the couatl | |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
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Flaredrgon
Sneak
59 Posts
| | 04/15/2006 9:38 PM |
| | sorry for being so random but is me having a ogre mage and valenar commander a good trade (both of them) for a Cleric of Corellon Larethian? | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 04/15/2006 9:45 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by iluvxtina
-Today I have ran an uncommon warband :Sword archon+sacred watchers.
I ran this Sword Archon/Sacred Watcher warband at a local tournament on the 8th:
Cleric of Order (24 pts)
Sword Archon (82 pts)
Sacred Watcher x4 (72 pts)
Warforged Scout (8 pts)
Healer (12 pts)
The strategy was to use the CoO as my main commander with the Sword Archon as a beater, giving the watchers +5 damage. The Healer was there to keep the Sword Archon alive.
I ended up taking 3rd place, going 3-1. I really didn't think I'd do that well...
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Damien the Bloodfeaster
Sergeant
885 Posts
Portland, OR
| | 04/16/2006 12:00 AM |
| Next time, try working a Warforged Bodyguard or two in there. He's a great hit point cushion for the Sword Archon, and he benefits from the SA's commander effect.
Adding a Justice Archon might be a good idea as well. That would give you more damage potential when facing off against CE. | | | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5103 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/16/2006 3:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Flaredrgon
sorry for being so random but is me having a ogre mage and valenar commander a good trade (both of them) for a Cleric of Corellon Larethian?
Considering on ebay at the moment you can get the ogre + valenar for about $16 and the Cleric of Corellon for $20 it's a reasonable trade.
Rather than posting something completely off topic you could try starting your own thread (ideally in the Trading or General Forum) rather than spamming in the Skirmish Discussion section.
More on-topic....
Sword Archon is very squishy. Damien's suggestion of a Warforged Bodyguard is definitely worth looking into to keep your primary beater/commander alive. | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 1:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
Next time, try working a Warforged Bodyguard or two in there. He's a great hit point cushion for the Sword Archon, and he benefits from the SA's commander effect.
That sounds like a good idea. I forgot that the Warforged Bodyguard was Fearless. | |
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 1:40 PM |
| I disagree. In this kind of a band, diluting the strength of the band (6 incorporeal AC 21 fearless figures that hit for 15 damage (under cfx) at +10) is a bad idea. It's a lot of work to harvest points from sacred watchers. Now, if you go and add in a warforged bodyguard and a justice archon, you're down to two or three sacred watchers and a bunch of filler which is basically what you would have in an MCB band or a pre-wardrums sword archon band. What you have to do is be very careful in your placement of the sword archon and be prepared to run the sword archon away to avoid getting killed. The beauty of the band is that if you run the sword archon away, the only things left to gather points on are sacred watchers and they are a real pain to kill.
Alternately, you make sure that killing the sword archon costs your opponent more points than the sword archon is worth. If you kill more than 82 points before the sword archon is gone, you're ahead and unless you're fighting fearless creatures with DR (and you don't have a sacred circle victory area) you're still fairly well off.
Ideally, however, the sword archon is going to dance in and out of the fight dropping 30 damage a round and only being exposed to retaliation when you lose initiative.
quote:
Originally posted by Damien the Bloodfeaster
Next time, try working a Warforged Bodyguard or two in there. He's a great hit point cushion for the Sword Archon, and he benefits from the SA's commander effect.
Adding a Justice Archon might be a good idea as well. That would give you more damage potential when facing off against CE.
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 2:39 PM |
| Sword Archon plus Sacred Watcher is a good combo.
The problem, as already pointed out, is that the SA is a little fragile and requires protection and/or very careful play.
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RRedlund
Sneak
54 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 2:48 PM |
| | Since you had a problem with conceal checks, maybe try to work in a lantern bearer. | |
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 04/16/2006 8:54 PM |
| | And hope you don't face a Rakshasa/Helmed Horror/Dark Moon Monk band. [)] | |
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rhane
Underboss
1412 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 9:58 AM |
| I was looking at mass Sacred Watcher bands as well...either with Sword Archon or Marut. The real problem I've found is that there are bad matchups on both the Lawful and Chaotic side.
vs. Lawful Evil, the single +10 attack is not going to hit often enough. The Lawful's will alot of high bonus, 15 damage attacks that can drop the Watchers quickly - even with incorporeal. The Watchers are also not Immune to Cold (for some reason), so Chraals are a concern.
vs. Chaotic Evil...The Ogre Ravager, HGB, and Orc Champ (with EoG) can each kill a Watcher in a single attack, and all have enough hit points to get a bunch of attacks in.
All in all, I think that Sacred Watchers are good in a limited role, and massing them is not the most efficient way to go. | |
Rhane
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elder_basilisk
Sergeant
410 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 10:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by rhane
I was looking at mass Sacred Watcher bands as well...either with Sword Archon or Marut. The real problem I've found is that there are bad matchups on both the Lawful and Chaotic side.
vs. Lawful Evil, the single +10 attack is not going to hit often enough. The Lawful's will alot of high bonus, 15 damage attacks that can drop the Watchers quickly - even with incorporeal. The Watchers are also not Immune to Cold (for some reason), so Chraals are a concern.
Chraals are a serious concern, as are helmed horrors. Duergar champs, I think, can be dealt with, as can most of LGs' options. If Zakya Rakshasas show up in significant numbers, sacred watcher bands will have to take a back seat.
The challenge on the LG side is the justice archon. Fearless while under command and DR is a bad combo.
Still, both are beatable.
quote:
vs. Chaotic Evil...The Ogre Ravager, HGB, and Orc Champ (with EoG) can each kill a Watcher in a single attack, and all have enough hit points to get a bunch of attacks in.
They have to hit first and that is not remotely guaranteed. in CE, only the hill giant barbarian and orc champ make a 30% chance of hitting a sacred watcher so their expected harvest of watchers with average rolls is acceptable. With hot rolls, it is much more challenging... then again, I don't think there is any band that won't have trouble against hill giant barbarians who are rolling hot. Similarly, you can put any band you want up against quad ogre ravagers and if the ravager player is rolling hot, that band is going down. | |
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scifirules
Sergeant
354 Posts
| | 04/17/2006 11:08 AM |
| One big problem with Sacred Watcher warbands is that they're a bit too dependant on Incorporeal. Like rhane was saying, one 30-damage hit takes care of a Sacred Watcher pretty easily.
That's really why my Sword Archon/Sacred Watcher band did so well: people kept failing Incorporeal. | |
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"I will pay my dues when you send me my tusks!" -Strong Bad
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WotDQ Called Shot: Large Green Dragon (VINDICATED) | Blood War Called Shot: Large Brass Dragon | Unhallowed Called Shot: Skeletal Troll
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DinoBen
Sergeant
412 Posts
Based outta Games of Berkeley, CA
| | 04/17/2006 12:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Flaredrgon
sorry for being so random but is me having a ogre mage and valenar commander a good trade (both of them) for a Cleric of Corellon Larethian?
Yes, you're getting a good deal. But as mentioned earlier these questions are best suited for the Trade thread. Let's just hope the person with whom you're trading doesn't also read these posts. | |
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