sttmxn
Sergeant
461 Posts
    
 | | 04/28/2006 8:43 PM |
| Inspired by BoloBaby's "one small change" thread:
The Sage is roundly deprecated as one of the worst skirmish pieces in DDM. In my gaming group (maybe in others?) he is considered to be one of the best--an old (literally) standby of notable cost efficiency. We love that guy. My brother made me a Sage statue for my birthday, which I keep on my desk.
Anyhow, whether you love him or hate him: how would you improve him?
For my part, I'd make him 12 points, Commander 0, with commander effect Sage Legion [followers whose names containg "sage" gain +2 AC], and special ability Willing To Follow.
Anybody else? | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 04/28/2006 8:47 PM |
| | I would throw him in the fire place and watch him burn to ash, and then hope that some kind of ash monster is made from his ash. Because anything would be better. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/28/2006 8:51 PM |
| I'd paint two different colors and have three wise guys [:P]
From a skirmish perspective, I'd add the following ability:
Long-Winded: All other creatures within 6 squares are affected by Sleep, DC 14).
The Sage knows all and is more than happy to wax at length [:D] | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 04/28/2006 10:03 PM |
| Well i don´t have the sage but i always wanted one.
Yes it is a useless creature in game, now more with the max 8 rule, for his cost you could find something better. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1500 Posts
Spain
| | 04/28/2006 10:30 PM |
| | I think one creature should have one cast of meteor shower.Why not a sage? | |
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Lead Moderator
LCS
Underboss
1896 Posts
| | 04/28/2006 10:41 PM |
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Battlefield Sage ANY 19
Lvl 4, Spd 6, AC 10, HP 25.
Melee Attack +0 (5)
Special Abilities:
Field Research (replaces attacks, Unique allies gain +5 damage of one chosen energy type until the start of this creature's next turn, effect ends immediately if this creature is eliminated, may not be used while threatened)
Arrogant (Commander ratings don't add to this creature's morale saves)
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Fearfrost
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 04/28/2006 10:49 PM |
| | Melt them down and cast them as something better[:)] | |
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Wolfgang
Warlord
5445 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 04/28/2006 11:28 PM |
| | I would use the sage to fill the mouth of a fiendish T-rex | |
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Luisjoey
Underboss
1704 Posts
Caracas Venezuela
| | 04/28/2006 11:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fearfrost
Melt them down and cast them as something better[:)]
better send em to me! i don´t have any [:D] | |
Knight of the Quori
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Thenameless
Warlord
11476 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 04/29/2006 12:09 AM |
| I would put the sage into the chaotic good faction only. Then, like the Orc Wardrummer, I would present the player with a choice of interesting special abilites. The sage is about knowledge, and most spells require some kind of knowledge. So, why not make the sage a 19 pt spellcaster booster? Choose one of the following:
1) Spellcasters gain damage +5 to all of their spells. I know, this is unfair to the Red Wizard. But, isn't the Wardrummer unfair to the War Chanter?
2) Spellcasters gain quick cast [] (only one).
3) Spellcasters gain elemental substitution (turn a fireball into sonic ball, etc.)
Note, you can only choose one of these effects for the ENTIRE skirmish. No flexibility like the Wardrummer. | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 12:47 AM |
| Sage:
Advise Commander: Allied commanders adjacent to the Sage when he activates gain one of the following abilities until their next activation.
Extend Command -
The range of friendly commander effects is increased to 8.
Navigate Terrain -
The commander gains stable footing.
Weak Spot -
The commander's next attack is +2 to hit and + 5 damage.
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Let it be. | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 12:59 AM |
| As you said the Sage is playable (with 4/1 hp/cost and speed 6) but suboptimal. Any single change would make the sage better and here are my suggestions.
1) Reduce cost to 4: Now 5/1 HP ratio and average speed.
2) FEARLESS: He knew what he was signing up for.
3) Beneath Contempt
4) Sacrifice Sage - add +4 to your next initiative roll: The old man sees the chance to strike and dies imidiately after informing the band. | |
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Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 2:17 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by iluvxtina
I think one creature should have one cast of meteor shower.Why not a sage?
Tellah!
He can only do it when he dies, though. | |
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/29/2006 2:28 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ridureyu
quote:
Originally posted by iluvxtina
I think one creature should have one cast of meteor shower.Why not a sage?
Tellah!
He can only do it when he dies, though.
Tellah was a Sage.....maybe you're on to something.
Spell: [] Meteor Swarm (Radius 8, 80 damage, DC 22)
Upon casting Meteor Swarm the Sage is eliminated. The Sage can only cast Meteor Swarm on the 5th round or later (it takes Tellah a while to remember all of his old spells...) | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 04/29/2006 2:40 AM |
| In the spirit of Magic's Unglued set, I think the Meteor Shower ability should work similarly to the "Chaos Confetti" card.
Tear the Sage into itty-bits and anything a piece of him lands on is eliminated. [:D] | |
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snafu
Skirmisher
28 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 8:27 AM |
| Simple give him
Knowledge is a Weapon
If Sage is in your Warband get +4 to Map intiiative | |
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scruffydude7
Underboss
1196 Posts
Rock Hill, SC
| | 04/29/2006 8:41 AM |
| Give him the Beneath Contempt special ability.
I'd play it. | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 10:58 AM |
| The sage should grant knowledge bonuses:
+4 to map initiative as suggested earlier
+2 or 4 to hit, he knows the enemy better (maybe within range 6)
sneaky tactics or something like it, as he should be able to develop a battle plan
bonuses to various commander effects
lots of these would have been great ideas, alas.... | |
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Low Key
Underboss
1231 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 11:11 AM |
| How about?
Brilliant plan (Choose 1 enemy creature at the start of the skirmish. Your warband gets melee damage +5 against that enemy.) | |
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gordonboom
Sergeant
393 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 11:22 AM |
| | Leave him exactly as he is but make him 1 point to put in your warband.(I have a bad habit of making 199 point bands) | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1832 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 3:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by snafu
Simple give him
Knowledge is a Weapon
If Sage is in your Warband get +4 to Map intiiative
I REALLY like this suggestion. I would play him in a lot of bands if this was his ability. | |
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sttmxn
Sergeant
461 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 4:03 PM |
| Man, these are great. My favorites are LCS' and these from Nobody Important:
quote:
2) FEARLESS: He knew what he was signing up for.
Elegant, and perfect.
quote:
4) Sacrifice Sage - add +4 to your next initiative roll: The old man sees the chance to strike and dies imidiately after informing the band.
You'd have to raise his cost--maybe up to 10--but that's pretty awesome.
Keep them coming! These are great, and since we play Sages in my group so much (I have 25), we very well might try some of them out.
Another one I like is the Sage of Legend: he has breath weapon Cone of Sages, which creates a 15-foot cone of squares all occupied by regular sages. If a square is occupied, roll DC 15 to avoid being displaced and taking 5 damage (this continues until you're out of the cone). | |
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The_Duke
Sneak
158 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 4:59 PM |
| A Sage could have any of the following abilities:
Creature Lore (touch; target creature gains +1 attack, this ability stacks with itself; unlimited uses)
Arcana [ ] (a spellcaster in your warband may cast one spell before initiative is rolled)
Gather Information (you receive a +4 bonus to set-up initiative)
Dungeoneering (your warband gains +5 damage against aberrations and oozes)
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 04/29/2006 6:03 PM |
| If you start increasing the Sage's cost it no longer is a Sage. If you change/add more than one thing are you really improving the Sage or just making a new creature in the Sage's image?
I've previously suggested:
Sacrific Sage - add +4 to next initiative.
It is the same as the Saytr's pipes except everyone could use it, its on a worse creature, and you give up cost and an activation to use it so there is no need to increase its cost.
I also like the +4 map initiative. He should know the best place to meet and fight.
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zenthrus
Warlord
5082 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 04/29/2006 6:09 PM |
| Sage Bait: Sacrifice this creature to Confuse target creature for one round.
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Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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Hejas
Sergeant
435 Posts
Poland
| | 04/29/2006 7:15 PM |
| | I'd give him LSD's breath weapon and save, Marut's melee attack, Green Dragon's speed and flight, Chain Devil's melee reach, HEBI's ranged attacks, Archmage's spells, Orc Wardrummer's drumbeat, Cleric of Dol Arrah's commander rating, HGB's HP, Beholder's eyerays, Snig's minions, bunch of special abilities (cleave, whirlwind attack, fearless, conceal 11, dual activation etc.) and lower hist cost to 3. This would see some play I think. Tier 2 at least. | |
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BoloBaby
Sergeant
640 Posts
Fort Mill, SC
| | 04/29/2006 9:51 PM |
| What we really need is to leave the Sage alone, and create a Sage Commander.
Dean of Sages - Cfx Creatures named Sage gain Deliver Boring Oratory(All creatures within 6 spaces save DC30 versus Sleep) | |
Champion of the Cleric with Raise Dead | |
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