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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
    
Utah
 | | 05/17/2006 1:07 PM |
| Looking back at some of the older minis I have noticed that the Aspect of Lolth doesn't get much play. Can this piece be used to thwart the titan heavy meta game? Melee reach of 3 and the ability to hit LG twice, for 20 dmg isn't bad. Also, the AoL has a good amount of hitpoints.
Also with the new release of wardrums, another peice grabs my attention.... The Hill Giant Cheiftan. HGC seems to have great potential in dealing with Titans. +4 to his already decent attack and 10 extra damage. He also has a good amount of life to chew through.
These 2 minis appear to be a good answer to all the Marut bands. What do you think? | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3523 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 05/17/2006 1:18 PM |
| I've thought about the Aspect of Lolth as an answer to the Marut. If you knew you'd face a bunch of Maruts, then that would be the way to go. The problem is dealing with a diverse field, though. What do you do when you instead face off against HGBs? You die a quick and painful death, that's what. It might be worth considering whether you could modify a dual-HGB band with a variant that uses one HGB and one Aspect of Lolth, though.
The Hill Giant Cheiftan is interesting, too. +20/+15 (30) against Maruts and other large critters probably makes him worth the extra points over the HGB in those situations. It's certainly worth trying. My impulse would be to start with him and an HGB as your core, but if that doesn't work, there are other beaters who can run with him. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
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Winner, WBC X | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 1:20 PM |
| I think they both cost too much to face a Marut. With the Aspect of Lolth, you'd need to hit the Marut 4 times to kill it. The Marut makes the AoL MC at 2 hits and is dead in 4. The +13 to hit isn't a guarentee and with the Couatl giving the Marut snake swiftness, I think the Marut's 4 hits will come a lot quicker than the AoL's.
I don't think CE is setup right now to make a competitive titan build. | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 1:23 PM |
| Eye of Gruumsh, Eye, Orc Champ, Red Sam or Champ, wardrummer, etc.
Eye's hit for +15 for 25 magic, I believe.
The Champ's hit for 30 magic when under command of the Eyes. If you can somehow base the Marut with two Eyes you have a decent shot of winning, even if both of your Eye's die/rout, as long as you kill the marut. There isn't much left in an LG band to kill they Champ/Samuarai after that.
Of course, you get smashed by dual HGB. | |
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Champion of Juiblex | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 05/17/2006 1:23 PM |
| What about running
Aspect of Lolth
Hill Giant Cheiftain
Wardrummer
2 x Orc Warrior
1 x Timber Wolf
Hill Giant Cheiftan
Hill Giant Barbarian
Wardrummer
Orc Warrior
Timber Wolf
5 activaions work?
Solid enough? | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 1:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zaukrie
Eye of Gruumsh, Eye, Orc Champ, Red Sam or Champ, wardrummer, etc.
Eye's hit for +15 for 25 magic, I believe.
Of course, you get smashed by dual HGB.
Thats not entirely true if you plan for it. Something like this is very solid against a Marut:
3 Eye of Gruumsh
Orc Druid
Cursed Spirit
Troglodyte
Wardrummer
Hyena
You should be able to give the Giants -8 to saves on any given moment and match them on init rolls. If you win init you can put 100 damage on a HGB and send it running. After the first giant runs the odds are greatly in your favor. Losing that first critical init can cost you though. Still 50/50 odds to win init and most likely the game isn't a bad match up at all. | |
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iluvxtina
Underboss
1501 Posts
Spain
| | 05/17/2006 1:38 PM |
| | The times I have seen marut defeated were by the hill giant,frenzied berserkers and orc champions warbands.Archmage can be useful too but you,ll need luck a lot.It,s a matter of luck for CE but with good strategy and nice rolls you,ll defeat the marut.Indeed if marut wins the initiative with kings road map,they,ll loose. | |
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 1:44 PM |
| bshugg, I only own 2 Eyes :) hence my band!
Yep, your band has a better shot against the giants than mine, but they still scare me. You need to keep the trog and spirit alive, which isn't as easy as I thought it was. The drow mounted patrol can get anywhere fast - ask my opponent on vassal last night.
I like the orc druid in there, even more than I like the red sam/orc champ. I may need to experiment more! | |
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Shadow_Fox
Underboss
1751 Posts
Litchfield, MN
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 2:06 PM |
| I was looking at something like:
Death Slaad x2 102
Eye of Gruumsh 44 146
Orc Druid 27 173
Orc Wardrummer 19 192
Hyena x2 8 200
Chaos Hammers for the LG hate at least banging the support. Against Hill Giants, probably pin one in with a Slaad OtT trying to keep him from avoiding the double hit by pinning one in. Sure, that Slaad won't last long, but if you can eliminate one Giant and a longshot at both with rends, what the heck. | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3523 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 05/17/2006 2:08 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by XenoZephyr
...I think the Marut's 4 hits will come a lot quicker than the AoL's.
It doesn't have to be that way, though. If you play smart, the AoL's better speed and greater reach can be used to allow you some unanswered attacks on the Marut, or to quickly knock out the Couatl. And don't forget that CE can play a snake's swiftness card, too.
27 Orc Druid
78 Hill Giant Barbarian
75 Aspect of Lolth
11 Cursed Spirit
6 Skeletal Warrior x2
3 Orc Warrior
That gives you lots of blockers, including several who can't be swept away by the Marut's mass inflict spell. Granted, with cover from your own guys, you only have a 50/50 shot to hit a Marut with the AoL's first attack, but that might be good enough to win the matchup after the Marut closes for a toe-to-toe. | |
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Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 2:45 PM |
| Sacred Watchers outright destroy Cursed Spirits without effort. Anyone who is thinking about using them better think again because it's 11 wasted points. The Trog Thug is a better play in the current metagame.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Zaukrie
Underboss
2007 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 2:48 PM |
| I also think you need the orc wardrummer in there to try to rout any Hill Giant Barbarians you meet up with.
It is a great piece against most any band (except multiple HH bands without leaders).
I also agree that the cursed spirit is haunted by existence of the sacred watchers. | |
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| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 2:52 PM |
| I like the Hill Giant Barbarian/Aspect of Lolth combination and agree that it is pretty damn good against Lawful Good builds, but it suffers a bit too much vs. LE and other CE builds for my taste. I will still probably play a few games with it to get a feel for it as, at the very least, it is an interesting build.
The Eye of Gruumsh band looks very, very dangerous. Now if only I could remember what happened to my third Eye of Gruumsh. [:(] | |
I am not gone. | |
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robbdaman
Underboss
2380 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 3:07 PM |
| I think a HGB/AoL warband could do reasonably well against other rogue anti-LG warbands too. Death Slaads don't pose much of a threat to Lolth but she isn't do much in the way of damage to them. It's interesting, I'm just not sure it's solid enough against other concepts. Helmed Horrors could eventually overtake. I think the multi-EoG concepts are fair but once you have say 3 EoG and a wardrummer why not just go with triple FBs? At that point the cost difference isn't much. Your to hits aren't as good but you also aren't routing on a 6 or less. Although you can also afford an Orc Champ in the warband as well which is more hitting power than CG can offer in comparison.
R~ | |
Champion of the Titan
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 3:27 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gunthar
I was looking at something like:
Death Slaad x2 102
Eye of Gruumsh 44 146
Orc Druid 27 173
Orc Wardrummer 19 192
Hyena x2 8 200
Chaos Hammers for the LG hate at least banging the support. Against Hill Giants, probably pin one in with a Slaad OtT trying to keep him from avoiding the double hit by pinning one in. Sure, that Slaad won't last long, but if you can eliminate one Giant and a longshot at both with rends, what the heck.
Two Death Slaads are 106, not 102. Scratch one Hyena... | |
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| Master Peon
spikegif
Warlord
5699 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 5:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by SneakyJoeKDB
What about running
Aspect of Lolth
Hill Giant Cheiftain
Wardrummer
2 x Orc Warrior
1 x Timber Wolf
Hill Giant Cheiftan
Hill Giant Barbarian
Wardrummer
Orc Warrior
Timber Wolf
5 activaions work?
Solid enough?
Come and give it a try on Thursday night or this Saturday at Hasturs [:)] | |
First peon to make it to "Knight Warlord"
Completed Trades -148- | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 05/17/2006 7:37 PM |
| I tried a triple Eye of Gruumsh band against a Marut/Couatl band a couple times. Even the +15 attack had trouble against AC 31, but the Marut had no problem hitting an Eye with cover. The thing is, though, with three of those Eyes running around, you can either pin your opponent's band into a very ugly configuration or take out the Couatl without much trouble. Given that the Couatl costs basically what an Eye costs, it's worth losing an Eye to take out the Couatl--and then some, because then the LG's damage output drops in half, but the CE band's damage output only drops by one-third.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 05/17/2006 8:11 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I like the Hill Giant Barbarian/Aspect of Lolth combination and agree that it is pretty damn good against Lawful Good builds, but it suffers a bit too much vs. LE and other CE builds for my taste. I will still probably play a few games with it to get a feel for it as, at the very least, it is an interesting build.
The Eye of Gruumsh band looks very, very dangerous. Now if only I could remember what happened to my third Eye of Gruumsh. [:(]
I've revisited the idea of using Aspect of Lolth a few times before. I've never gone so far as to bring her out again in a long time, though, because upon reflection and comparison her stats aren't all that great even if every opponent is LG (haha). Compared with Stone Giant she's got +3 to hit, -15 hp, -6(?) point cost, DR5, as well as crazy good saves. Oh and magic damage, though Mialee isn't too much expense for the Stone Giant player.
True, that's better than the Stone Giant... but only against LG. The Stone Giant isn't exactly considered that great a piece, either.
In short, the Aspect of Lolth can probably sorta work, but even against LG it's not a dominant piece. If I'm going to take the metagame risk of playing her, I'd want a better reward if I *do* guess right than the barely-favorable matchup against Marut that I'd actually get.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 05/17/2006 10:56 PM |
| | I have had some luck in the past running Lolth with a gnoll sarg commander it makes every hit after the first +5 damage now against LG thats 25 magic a hit at melee reach 3 and that ain't 2 shabby | |
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Kypdurron
Underboss
1206 Posts
Broken Hill
| | 05/17/2006 11:34 PM |
| How about this
Gnoll sarg 33pts
Aspect of Lolth 75pts
Hill Giant barbarian 78pts
Orc warrior x3 9pts
Timber wolf 5 pts
total 200pts 7 activations
Obviously morale saves ain't that flash but could go alright i think.
A HGB doing 45 damage a swing to wounded medium creatures is nasty
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Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/18/2006 12:07 AM |
| | The Aspect of Lolth is not a bad answer to the Marut, but it still may not be enough. In a head-to-head, CE would have a chance. The problem is, in a tournament environment, it's not just LG that shows up. If any other faction brings something strong to the table, then the AoL warband is in trouble. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Krush
Commander
3851 Posts
| | 05/18/2006 1:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I like the Hill Giant Barbarian/Aspect of Lolth combination and agree that it is pretty damn good against Lawful Good builds, but it suffers a bit too much vs. LE and other CE builds for my taste. I will still probably play a few games with it to get a feel for it as, at the very least, it is an interesting build.
The Eye of Gruumsh band looks very, very dangerous. Now if only I could remember what happened to my third Eye of Gruumsh. [:(]
My dog ate it like other important figs. [:P]
Seriously we were discussing this tonite (league play) what a good counter is to the Marut. I am tempted to almost suggest the Aspect of Hextor but there are many figs available to counter him.
Note the use of the word almost! | |
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