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Slartibart
Skirmisher
36 Posts
    
 | | 06/12/2006 4:57 PM |
| I played
Drizzt
Rask
Rikka
Aramil
Devis
Lidda, Halfling Rogue
Jozan
Xeph Warrior
this weekend in the Idaho qualifier, and managed to go 3 and 2 in the swiss. My 2 losses were to the guys who finished 5-0 and 4-1. I played every other player who finished in the top 6 so my tie breakers were very good and I was in third.
In the final I ended up playing Gnolaum, who was my ride (12 hours from Calgary to Twin Falls) who beat me. It was a good match, but my luck, which had been pretty good up till this point failed me. I based his Couatl with Drizzt and Rask, and then rolled a 1 on the stunning attack with Rask when he flew away. I needed a 6, so it was by no means a sure thing, but the one was just uncalled for. Later on I had his Bodyguard out of postion, he rolled a 1 for initiative, so all I needed to roll was a 5 and I would take my shots, of course I rolled a 4, he won initiative and got back into position; I then rolled both hits on the Marut which would have killed it, except that the bodyguard was there to take the damage.
All in all I was quite happy with the band. It fared well against everyone I played, and I think with a little more luck I could have beaten the winner, but it was not to be. The one band that I was really afraid of was Dual Hill Giants, and thankfully I didn't see any at the tourney.
The bands I did beat were:
Dual Kord, Couatl, Cleric of Order, Human Commoner(5 activations)
Dual Gauth, Dark Naga, Dual Duergar Champs, 3 Azer Raider
3 Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champ, Wardrummer, Fodder
All in all I had a lot of fun playing it, and the people in Idaho were great. I know that this should probably go in the Tourney forum, but I wanted to brag a little. | |
Champion of the Gnome Hook Hammer
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Melrune
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 10:25 PM |
| Wow!
I was currenlty considering playing a drizzt band and was wondering on the best combination: guwenwyvar, rask or ulmo...
The rask band seems to be solid but dual HGB should likely be able to beat it...
I was wondering if Drizzt-Ulmo could have any chance at all... The +5 drizzt damage for Ulmo really seems to make a difference.
Something like:
drizzt 87
ulmo 77
Ember 18
tordek 5
iald 5
jozan 4
lidda 4
Do you think this could be superior or inferior to the drizzt-Rask band? | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 10:42 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Melrune
Wow!
I was currenlty considering playing a drizzt band and was wondering on the best combination: guwenwyvar, rask or ulmo...
The rask band seems to be solid but dual HGB should likely be able to beat it...
I was wondering if Drizzt-Ulmo could have any chance at all... The +5 drizzt damage for Ulmo really seems to make a difference.
Something like:
drizzt 87
ulmo 77
Ember 18
tordek 5
iald 5
jozan 4
lidda 4
Do you think this could be superior or inferior to the drizzt-Rask band?
good stuff, play what you want to play not what people says you should =D
i think its inferior, because ulmo is inferior vs maruts, HH, SW (undead stuff) etc. thats the main reason, so many dang maruts. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5100 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 06/12/2006 11:00 PM |
| CG Strikes Again! [^]
That makes European Championships, Pegasus Knight's qualification, and Slartibart's qualification (I could be missing something). Not bad for a faction considered bottom-tier [:D] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
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Melrune
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/12/2006 11:05 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by jos1-1
quote:
Originally posted by Melrune
Wow!
I was currenlty considering playing a drizzt band and was wondering on the best combination: guwenwyvar, rask or ulmo...
The rask band seems to be solid but dual HGB should likely be able to beat it...
I was wondering if Drizzt-Ulmo could have any chance at all... The +5 drizzt damage for Ulmo really seems to make a difference.
Something like:
drizzt 87
ulmo 77
Ember 18
tordek 5
iald 5
jozan 4
lidda 4
Do you think this could be superior or inferior to the drizzt-Rask band?
good stuff, play what you want to play not what people says you should =D
i think its inferior, because ulmo is inferior vs maruts, HH, SW (undead stuff) etc. thats the main reason, so many dang maruts.
Hmm, just a quick question (to make sure I understand why Ulmo is not effective against Marut): Does the +5 damage from Drizzt negated by the DR 5 of the marut or is it condiered as magic damage like ulmo based damage? Basically, will Ulmo do 10 +10 +10 = 30dg in a round (assuming all his attacks hit or only 5+5+5)... I understand sneak attack don't work against Marut... Also, does stun work against Marut?
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3523 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 06/12/2006 11:39 PM |
| Constructs are immune to stun and sneak attack. Without sneak attack, Ulmo can't do nearly as much damage as a 77 point mini should do, even with Drizzt's help.
But that doesn't mean Ulmo couldn't win against a Marut band. It'd be a bad matchup and a tough fight, but stun and sneak attack are still good against a Couatl or a Warforged Bodyguard. And with his huge AC and mobility, you could even risk an AoO from a Marut if you had to. Also, his deflect arrows ability is especially handy if you happen to face an Arcane Ballista variant. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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SneakyJoeKDB
Sergeant
593 Posts
Utah
| | 06/13/2006 12:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Melrune
Hmm, just a quick question (to make sure I understand why Ulmo is not effective against Marut): Does the +5 damage from Drizzt negated by the DR 5 of the marut or is it condiered as magic damage like ulmo based damage? Also, does stun work against Marut?
Yes the damage bonus becomes the type of damage Ulmo delivers. So Umo would effectively hit at 10 dmg with Drizzt CFX.
No. Stun does not work against constructs. | |
"Like a thief in the Night"
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Gunthar
Commander
2938 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 12:25 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Melrune
I was wondering if Drizzt-Ulmo could have any chance at all... The +5 drizzt damage for Ulmo really seems to make a difference.
Something like:
drizzt 87
ulmo 77
Ember 18
tordek 5
iald 5
jozan 4
lidda 4
Do you think this could be superior or inferior to the drizzt-Rask band?
Ick, actually. Drizzt/Ulmo is just too expensive for what you get at this point in time. Constructs (and HP) are Ulmo's downfall as he's highly dependant on Sneak Attack damage to be good. Plus, you have to fill activations with crap. Rask gives you som emore flexibility. A Rikka/Guen combo may be better yet, depending on matchups, just because it offers some more versatility, although keeping Rikka on the board is tough. | |
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Zippy
Underboss
1993 Posts
Whitewater, WI
| | 06/13/2006 1:16 AM |
| | ...But Drizzt/Ulmo in epic is a whole different story... | |
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Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 06/13/2006 1:25 AM |
| | Good to hear, and kudos to you. Nice to hear that everyone's favourite dark elf is still alive and kicking. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 1:41 AM |
| | Its really nice to see Drizzt being played, or any other peices. I'm always happy when we see more variety, and they actually work out. Good job. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Slartibart
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 2:39 PM |
| I did briefly consider running Ulmo, but in this band Rask is really the hammer: +19/+19 for 25 magic damage, with Melee Reach and a DC 19 stun. His AC sucks at 14, but 85 hit points if a pretty good number, he can survive 3 hits from CE quad, and 2 hits from a Hill Giant. His save goes to 11, and 14 for morale checks.
Also if you run Ulmo you can't have Rikka who is also extremely useful; a 25 point shot a +18 is pretty nice for commander assassination and back field beats. When in range of Drizzt her normally pathetic save 5 goes to an almost playable 8, and her morale goes to 11, which means she occasionally sticks around. And the fact that she can appear in the opponents back field means that he can either leave his support at her mercy, or withdraw a hitter to try and deal with her, which means that Drizzt and Rask can deal with fewer front line hitters and defeat them in detail.
I wouldn't even consider playing Guen, her stats just aren't up to par in 200pt, although her epic card is VERY tempting.
The other thing that I loved about this band is that even the fodder becomes dangerous. One of the highlights of the weekend was when 4 pt Lidda shot an Eye of Gruumsh with sneak attack, and rolled a 20 for 20 points of damage(5 base, double for crit, plus 5 for Drizzt, plus 5 for Sneak Attack). That dropped the Eye low enough that Rask was able to route him with his first attack, and use his second to stun an Orc Champ. While Lidda is within 6 of Drizzt and hidden she gets a slow ranged attack at +9 for 15 damage, which is amazing for a 4 point piece. | |
Champion of the Gnome Hook Hammer
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| 2005 D&D Miniatures Champion
Fenris
Sergeant
974 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 4:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slartibart
One of the highlights of the weekend was when 4 pt Lidda shot an Eye of Gruumsh with sneak attack, and rolled a 20 for 20 points of damage(5 base, double for crit, plus 5 for Drizzt, plus 5 for Sneak Attack). That dropped the Eye low enough that Rask was able to route him with his first attack, and use his second to stun an Orc Champ. While Lidda is within 6 of Drizzt and hidden she gets a slow ranged attack at +9 for 15 damage, which is amazing for a 4 point piece.
Awesome story. [:)] I love to see Lidda in action. Tried and Sven used to run her with LSD/Coautl bands last year, and sometimes they'd do a first-round surprise ranged attack against enemy fodder. It's funny to see people's reaction when you say "My Couatl casts Snake's Swiftness on Lidda..." | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10445 Posts
United States
| | 06/13/2006 4:47 PM |
| I just brought this thread to my son's attention and he was pumped. He loves the older pieces and is quite happy to see some of them placing in the top four (anyone who doesn't know, the Umber Hulk placed a while back too).
It ain't easy, of course, but it can be done.
Congrats!
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 4:50 PM |
| Super-Lidda (GoL) is such a beating with Drizzt around that I always try to squeeze her in.
I wish someone had played drizzt at the MD qualifier. I'd have been happy to turn him into paste with my Hill Giants. :D | |
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-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 5:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slartibart
... While Lidda is within 6 of Drizzt and hidden she gets a slow ranged attack at +9 for 15 damage, which is amazing for a 4 point piece.
Actually, Lidda only gets Drizzt's bonus on her ranged attack.
Her sneak attack is melee only, and does not apply to ranged attacks.
(This has been ruled several times.) | |
Let it be. | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 5:27 PM |
| BTW- I really like the build, and I have been messing with drizzt builds for a while now. played one my last trip out to chicago in fact.
With Tordek and Rikka, you can now make an interesting and affordable band.
Congrats on qualifying.
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Let it be. | |
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Slartibart
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 6:31 PM |
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| Thanks for the info Tried. We were discussing this on the ride back, and Gnolaum thought thats the ruling, but at the time I thought if it didn't specify Ranged Sneak Attack or Melee Sneak Attack then it would apply to both. | |
Champion of the Gnome Hook Hammer
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kingnanu
Warrior
214 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 10:41 PM |
| | Yeah Drizzt!! | |
Called shot for blood war: Leonal | |
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Pegasus Knight
Sergeant
896 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 11:25 PM |
| | That's fantastic, Slartibart. I'm curious, what inspired you to run a Drizzt band? Fan of the character? Enjoy running Uniques? Some metagame consideration? | |
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Melrune
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 11:37 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slartibart
I did briefly consider running Ulmo, but in this band Rask is really the hammer: +19/+19 for 25 magic damage, with Melee Reach and a DC 19 stun. His AC sucks at 14, but 85 hit points if a pretty good number, he can survive 3 hits from CE quad, and 2 hits from a Hill Giant. His save goes to 11, and 14 for morale checks.
Also if you run Ulmo you can't have Rikka who is also extremely useful; a 25 point shot a +18 is pretty nice for commander assassination and back field beats. When in range of Drizzt her normally pathetic save 5 goes to an almost playable 8, and her morale goes to 11, which means she occasionally sticks around. And the fact that she can appear in the opponents back field means that he can either leave his support at her mercy, or withdraw a hitter to try and deal with her, which means that Drizzt and Rask can deal with fewer front line hitters and defeat them in detail.
I wouldn't even consider playing Guen, her stats just aren't up to par in 200pt, although her epic card is VERY tempting.
The other thing that I loved about this band is that even the fodder becomes dangerous. One of the highlights of the weekend was when 4 pt Lidda shot an Eye of Gruumsh with sneak attack, and rolled a 20 for 20 points of damage(5 base, double for crit, plus 5 for Drizzt, plus 5 for Sneak Attack). That dropped the Eye low enough that Rask was able to route him with his first attack, and use his second to stun an Orc Champ. While Lidda is within 6 of Drizzt and hidden she gets a slow ranged attack at +9 for 15 damage, which is amazing for a 4 point piece.
Thanks for the feedback Slartibart ;-)
The Rask build is probably the nearest tier 1 build with drizzt and you seems to have proven it.
My view on Rask was that it may not survive long enough against some hitter like HGB but with Ulmo with AC 25, then this become much more playable against HGB build for example but less against creature immune to sneak and stun...
Of course, I've tried to fit Rikka in (the tri should really rock and roll) but then I end up in activation problem...
Drizzt 87
Ulmo 77
Rikka 31
tordek 5... 200 pts total
Only 4 activations unfortunately ;-( But that is something I might try to play for fun. | |
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Slartibart
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 06/14/2006 12:08 AM |
| I have been playing Monks pretty consistently for the past few months, and feel that I have a pretty good grasp of the band, and up until about 5 minutes before the qualifier that is what I thought I would be playing.
My friend Ken(who won the Edmonton qualifier) and I were discussing the meta while we brainstormed alternate bands for Idaho, and ran through several bands. We had Dual Death Slaad with Mounted Drow Patrol, War Troll with Rakshasa, Zak Rak and Duergar Champ, and were looking for something in Chaotic Good. I didn't like the idea of running Frenzied with IM because I just don't think that I have a great feel for when to use the GMA, and I didn't have any time to practice the band, and somehow totaly forgot about Kord. So we were trying to think a little outside the box and thought about Drizzt.
We ran through a few builds, and the Rask/Rikka seemed the most balanced, so we gave it a test against War Troll/Rakshasa/Zak Rak/Duergar. The first test I lost on really really horrible luck, so we decided to give it another chance, and I managed a fairly respectable win. All in all it seemed a solid band, but I was still committed to monks.
A little bit of the thinking was outside the Meta, because so few people see Drizzt builds, they wouldn't have a solid strategy to use against me. I think this really helped me in my game against the Orcs, when my opponent completely forgot about Rikka and moved his Wardrummer into a victory area to hide from my hitters. I think he was distracted by my band, and missed a key element.
Driving down to Idaho, I had 12 hours to think about my band and chat with Gnolaum, and the more I thought about it, the less confident I became in Monks. The one matchup I was really worried about with Drizzt was Hill Giants, and I actually said, if Rask has 80 hit points I can't take it, if he has 85 I have to think about it. So after digging out the card and seeing that Rask does indeed have 85 hit points I think I really started to enjoy the idea. At least a few of the key strategies with monks work with the Drizzt band; you have to make sure that your hitters are always with in 6 of the commander to get full effectiveness, and the high speed means you are able to pull off outflanks to get into the enemies rear echelon. While I didn't want to run IM for lack of practice, I knew that I could handle this band fairly well.
Last but not least was the fact that it would be about the most notable Rogue band out there, and hey, it would be fun. | |
Champion of the Gnome Hook Hammer
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Melrune
Sneak
116 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 11:13 PM |
| Just realize that this new guy is coming with the new set.
Originally posted by Kissmykiester:
LG Tordek, Dwarf Champion 59pts
Lvl: 10
Spd: 6
AC: 22
HP: 100
Melee Attk: +19/+14 (15 magic +5 electricity)
Range Attk: +12 range 6 []
Type: Humanoid - Dwarf
Special Abilities
Unique
Independent
Cleave
Dodge Giants (+4 ac against Giants)
Ghost touch
---------------------
I think this new unique minid combine with Drizzt should really rock&roll.
A Drizzt-Rikka-Tordek champion combo should be superior to Drizzt-Rask-Rikka combo...
What do you think?
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Wakalimasu
Sergeant
738 Posts
Calgary
| | 06/17/2006 2:31 AM |
| i always get slaughtered when i play epic with drizzt vs my friend who plays artemis :(
ulmo bites in epic!
rask rocks :D
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o_O | |
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Slartibart
Skirmisher
36 Posts
| | 06/18/2006 12:16 AM |
| Tordek looks like he will be an awesome add to an Unique build, but the point break does become a little problematic. The problems is with Drizzt, Tordek and Rikka, you only have 23 points left to fill out 5 activations; Aramil is insanely good, so you want him, and the Countersong from Devis can be huge, which leaves you with 4 points, for Lidda or something, but only 6 activations, which is really bad. The end result is you lose some fantastic tech for an improved hitter. I think the hitter is probably worth it, but losing Aramil hurts the band.
The great thing about him is he becomes a counter to Hill Giant Barbs, which I figured was my worst matchup. I don't know if he will be that strong against them, but he is definetly more suited to it than ac 14 Rask. Another great thing is the Ghosttouch, which means he can also counter SWarm which is another tricky band to deal with.
In Epic Artemis will slaughter just about any unique based warband, that is what he is designed to do, and there is almost no counter to it. That being said I do like the stats on the Epic Guen. I haven't played her yet, but I think she adds a lot to Drizzts chances. And actually I really like Ulmo in Epic; there aren't too many playable things in epic right now that are immune to Sneak attack, so he can dish out a good chunk of damage if you play him right. | |
Champion of the Gnome Hook Hammer
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| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7670 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 06/18/2006 1:19 AM |
| | I'm definitely going to try Tordek with Drizzt and Rikka. Aramil is a definite include, but I'll probably drop Devis to get a few more activations. depends on what's out there. (the cloudreaver looks interesting) | |
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Tgt
Sergeant
574 Posts
| | 06/18/2006 10:33 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Slartibart
In Epic Artemis will slaughter just about any unique based warband, that is what he is designed to do, and there is almost no counter to it.
Actually, epic Tordek kills him in 3 attacks (add SS and you can kill Artemis in 1 phase) while Artemis will need a flanker to backstab and maybe won´t even take 2/3 of Tordek´s hp. | |
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nycfarmkid
Underboss
1210 Posts
Wadsworth, OH
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Okay McKay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 9:20 AM |
| | Great job qualifying with Drizzt! I always want to get a Satyr into a bad with Rikka... Good synergy there. It's pretty difficult with Drizzt and Rask, but it would be nice to get a bump to init with Rikka shows up and have her fly in and then make a full attack with Rask. 75 damage at the top of, say, round 4 would be sweet. | |
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