PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
    
 | | 06/16/2006 12:25 PM |
| An unusual situation occured in a recent game and even after reading the working on the cards and the rulebook I still was not sure what order the actions should have taken place, so I wanted to ask for your help.
My Frenzied Berserker was based with a Sand Giant. The Giant attacks and kills the FBerserker.
1) Does the Giant cleave before or after death strike from the FB? If it is after see #2.
2) The death strike forces moral on the Giant. Does cleave happen before or after moral? If after see #3.
3) If moral is failed does the Giant Cleave then run or lose the cleave?
I think that covers everything.
Thank for the help. | |
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Foxman
Sergeant
417 Posts
Calgary, AB, Canada
| | 06/16/2006 12:31 PM |
| Hi!
If you post your questions on the WotC D&D minis forum, you can get an 'offical' answer from Guy - The WotC Netrep for DDM.
You can find the answer for your question here:
http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DDM/Clarifications.html
- Look under the death strike entry
So the answer to your questions are as follows:
1) Death strike is resolved before cleave
2) Moral is resolved before cleave
3) The giant runs and loses cleave
Hope that helps! | |
It would be very unlikely for unlikely events not to occur.
- J. A. Paulos "Innumeracy" | |
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Richard II
Commander
3663 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 12:32 PM |
| 1) FB gets dropped to 0. It then uses its deathstrike (DS).
2) If the sand giant is then forced to make a morale save, it does, AND it gets the -2 from the FB aura of fear (which I find silly).
3) After the morale save is resolved, the FB is eliminated, and the sand giant gets its cleave attack (assuming it made the morale save). If the Sand Giant failed its morale save it routs as normal and does not get a cleave attack. | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
514 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 1:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Foxman
Hi!
If you post your questions on the WotC D&D minis forum, you can get an 'offical' answer from Guy - The WotC Netrep for DDM.
You can find the answer for your question here:
http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DDM/Clarifications.html
- Look under the death strike entry
So the answer to your questions are as follows:
1) Death strike is resolved before cleave
2) Moral is resolved before cleave
3) The giant runs and loses cleave
Hope that helps!
Actually - this is an instance of simultaneous effects. The death strike entry question deals with a creature that has both deathstrike AND cleave. This does not apply to the original poster's question.
If you look up the Pushback section of the clarifications, you'll find a similar example and see that you should resolve the cleave before the deathstrike. This is because the acting creature is the one with cleave. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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Felagund
Sergeant
922 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 2:14 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Temysry
Actually - this is an instance of simultaneous effects. The death strike entry question deals with a creature that has both deathstrike AND cleave. This does not apply to the original poster's question.
If you look up the Pushback section of the clarifications, you'll find a similar example and see that you should resolve the cleave before the deathstrike. This is because the acting creature is the one with cleave.
You are correct about the Death Strike/Cleave clarification in the link not pertaining to the question at hand, but Foxman's answers are still correct.
IIRC, the reason that Death Strike resolves before Cleave because it triggers on a creature being reduced to 0 HP rather than being destroyed (which is what triggers Cleave). So the effects are not actually simultaneous, as the FB will be reduced to 0 HP, triggering the Death Strike before she is actually destroyed.
EDIT: Guess I was close, but a little off. Here is the thread where Guy explains it:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=649498 | |
Champion of Gnomes | |
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Temysry
Sergeant
514 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 2:33 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Felagund
quote:
Originally posted by Temysry
Actually - this is an instance of simultaneous effects. The death strike entry question deals with a creature that has both deathstrike AND cleave. This does not apply to the original poster's question.
If you look up the Pushback section of the clarifications, you'll find a similar example and see that you should resolve the cleave before the deathstrike. This is because the acting creature is the one with cleave.
You are correct about the Death Strike/Cleave clarification in the link not pertaining to the question at hand, but Foxman's answers are still correct.
IIRC, the reason that Death Strike resolves before Cleave because it triggers on a creature being reduced to 0 HP rather than being destroyed (which is what triggers Cleave). So the effects are not actually simultaneous, as the FB will be reduced to 0 HP, triggering the Death Strike before she is actually destroyed.
EDIT: Guess I was close, but a little off. Here is the thread where Guy explains it:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=649498
Thanks for the link - I had missed that part about "after it destroys..." part of the wording.
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A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 2:34 PM |
| Wow, I guess it's a good thing that I passed that morale check anyhow... if my Sand Giant had routed, there was no way for him to rally.
Ya know, reading Guy's response, it's the intentional inclusion of words like "after" that make the general rule of simultaneous actions/acting player's choice, not apply all the time.
***EDIT***
(Wise-ass remarks deleted even though it wasn't intended seriously)
/***Edit***
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
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GiliusThunderHead
Sneak
99 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 6:12 PM |
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To make matters worse, I heard, don't know if it's true, the "Net Rep" position is an UNPAID position.
I don't know if I could handle all the jackasses (like myself) bugging the crap out O' me all the time and not get any ducats($$$) for my troubles.
--GiliusThunderHead | |
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Blunt Claymore
Sneak
78 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 6:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
Wow, I guess it's a good thing that I passed that morale check anyhow... if my Sand Giant had routed, there was no way for him to rally.
Ya know, reading Guy's response, it's the intentional inclusion of words like "after" that make the general rule of simultaneous actions/acting player's choice, not apply all the time. Guess it keeps Guy with a job, cuz if they just got the rules right and didn't constantly clarify/revisit them, WotC wouldn't need a net rep to answer questions about all the confusion. At other places, it'd be referred to as job security by intentional incompetance. Here, we'll just refer to it as 'smart tactics'... [)]
Rob
I know that you were trying to be ironic, RobWreck, but you erred on the scurrilous side. My sense is that GuyF has a pretty good sense of humour about these things, but cut the guy a break. It's the nature of language: one man's clarity is another's obscurity. | |
A journey of 1,000 miles starts with a good whooping. | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 9:38 PM |
| You're right, on both accounts. After thinking about it, I came to the conclusion that my attempt at pointing out the irony of the situation wasn't needed, so I editted it out of my original post. I'm sure that GuyF and R&D try do their best. It's just too bad that sometimes they make things more confusing than they need to be (such as the issue of 'after' in Cleave) and sometimes when they step up to clarify a question, sometimes they open a bigger can of worms (I'm thinking BodyGuard here). But if Gill's right and GuyF's a volunteer, then I withdraw any previous non-constructive criticism.
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 10:02 PM |
| Guy is paid only in Cheetohs and minis. [:0]
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Let it be. | |
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jos1-1
Sergeant
829 Posts
| | 06/16/2006 10:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Richard II
1) FB gets dropped to 0. It then uses its deathstrike (DS).
2) If the sand giant is then forced to make a morale save, it does, AND it gets the -2 from the FB aura of fear (which I find silly).
i would have to totaly agree with you here. | |
Poor student looking for minis =D | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7675 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 06/18/2006 1:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Tried
Guy is paid only in Cheetohs and minis. [:0]
Yeah, it's probably not so bad to be paid in cases (or possibly sets) of minis. I know I do it. | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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