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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
    
Portland OR
 | | 09/22/2007 5:54 PM |
| We're getting started a day early on this one... we're gonna need it...
Aspect of Demogorgan!
Huge ac, and resistances... in CE!!! good speed, above average lvl, standard to hit, reach 2, blind sight... and the big one... dual activation.
Every offensive buff you can add to this piece almost counts as double... +5 dmg can = extra 20 dmg a round... +2 hit is like adding gmw to 2 pieces... 4 atts for dolerous blows to effect... lots of options... but the low att and the low dmg hurt so you need to buff...
Check out this comparision piece however!
Marilith has
2 more attacks
2 better to hit
1 less lvl
1 more speed
5 less AC
Immune to fire vs. res 10
Spell res vs. resist 10 acid and 10 cold
Enhanced mobility 2 vs. dual activation
So if that's not neck and neck I don't know what is! The aspect of Demogorgan might be a little less offensive but has a big edge in ac. Dual activation also likely means that the Aspect of Demogorgan will get in 3 atts on the round of engagement where the Marilith might only get 1. With ac 24 i'm also less worried about running Demogorgan by himself or out in front.Â
So are they worth the exact same or is one slightly better than the other???
I'll start the haggling as usual:Â 71pts for the Prince of Demons!
In the end spell resistance + 3 immunities is going to be more defensive than most of demogorgan's resistances... and the 2 extra atts at a higher bonus are worth more... whatever is good for demogorgan is usually better for the marilith...but not by much! The extra activation also presents interesting tactical options.
For warband building:
Aspect of Demogorgon 71
Cleric of Grumish  21
Wardrummer 19
Lg Black Dragon 44
Cleric of Grumish you ask? yes! +10 hp and cleave! The aspect gets a lot of swings and should hit often enough to get in a cleave or two a game... the +10 hp with the 24 ac and DR could be the difference between life and death quite honestly. Lg black with cleave is scary too.
A third beater is needed... perhaps a beater cmd. You can drop the wardrummer of course but without a solid cmd the moral is chancey...
***edited to remove independent | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/22/2007 10:17 PM |
| Seriously,
10+ hits in a few hours and no one has anything to say??? | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Gohu
Sneak
80 Posts
| | 09/23/2007 5:50 AM |
| Oddly enough, in our Home campaign it was recosted at 50 !!! :-O
But comparing it to Marilith seems like a perfect comparaison... i think that dual activation is way better than Enhance mobility, because the usual tactic with multiple attack fig is that you take the AoO to deny them a full round of attack. So even in a full game (not only the first round) i think that the Aspect have better chance at hitting more often...
Also the independant factor (in CE is huge), and HIgher AC make me tend to think that the Aspect has a little edge.
In my humble opinion, i kindof think the the Aspect is a bit better than the Marilith...
My recost would be 76 | |
«I didn't came to play, i came to win» - Kamahl, Pit Fighter | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/23/2007 8:41 AM |
| 50 would be a bit absurd, even for my "competitive" standards!
I think over the course of a match that the additional +2 to att and the additional 2 attacks are going to make the Marilith do more dmg... the Aspect would likely avoid more dmg in a standup fight, but as noted, most people won't take a full att on the Marilith to negate her getting a full att, so she is avoiding more dmg than her ac and resistances would usually indicate. Unless your fighting forgepreists and ultroloths... then they just beat you on init and beat the tar out of you...
How does the Marilith stack up against black dragons? not well I'm guessing... while not "weak" by today's standards she's not the terror she once was...
Dual actiavation is also a bit of a curse. You have to spend two activations to get 4 atts and they are not big dmg or even above average dmg atts. If the Aspects Damage or att was at 15 I'd say he'd be equal or slightly better than the Marilith with ac, and dual acts tactical advantage. As is she hits better, harder, and forces your oppoenent to play differently. You change your att strategy when fighting the Marilith as she can kill and then moral check beaters in one activation. Demogorgon just doesn't threaten you that way with +13/+13 for 10m/10m and then activating again for the same.
More fun food for thought... people used to run dual mariliths... if the Aspect of Demogorgon was same cost or less by 2-3 ptswould you run 2??? my guess is no. how about 1 and 1??? maybe... I didn't ever pilot dual marilith... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Gohu
Sneak
80 Posts
| | 09/23/2007 11:15 AM |
| If i remember correctly the Aspect was recosted before the Marilith was there... so less comparaison i think !! ;-)
Surely that a Dual Aspect of D. is less appealling because it has less punch. And i agree with you that the marilith tend to make the oppenent change strategy more then the Aspect could. Surely the Aspect could benefit from a doomguard (for more damage) but Marilith also !!
that all good point you got there that make me think to go a bit lower than the Marilith...
One other thing, i did not see the independent ability of the Aspect of D. anywhere i looked (Bifur and DDM Wiki) where did you see that ? | |
«I didn't came to play, i came to win» - Kamahl, Pit Fighter | |
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Tooninki
Warrior
272 Posts
Finland
| | 09/23/2007 11:26 AM |
| | Aspect of Demogorgon dont have Independent, sad but true... | |
Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/23/2007 11:42 AM |
| I found Independent on ddmspoilers, I'll call my buddy and double check as he has all our minis. I vaguely remember him being independent as I ran him commanderless once or twice. Or if anyone else can confirm that would be nice too... It makes a big difference for this discussion.
I compare to the Marilith because before Ultroforge was all the rage and black dragons came in droves, she was one of the top beasts. The comparisons between the two started there for Demogorgon to be costed competitively. since they are same faction and similiar in roles I've kept it up. If you can think of any other comparison piece I would love to hear it. She's just as close as I could find. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Tooninki
Warrior
272 Posts
Finland
| | 09/23/2007 11:50 AM |
| | Well i have him/it myself and i checked the card, theres no independent in it, is there an errata of it? | |
Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/23/2007 1:56 PM |
| No independence then... no errata that I know of...
So we're definatly looking towards 69-70 pts then at most... That's a big hit but at least save 11 is better than your average beater and 2 chances to moral check (or failed moral and off the board) in a single round can be benificial.
I'll edit to remove independent discussion. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Kezghan
Sneak
60 Posts
Greater Vancouver
| |
Kezghan
Sneak
60 Posts
Greater Vancouver
| | 09/23/2007 2:21 PM |
| | oh and id love a low 70ies AoD... that would be really fun. | |
Top 8 at 2008 Constructed Championships. Orienthrall Express baby! | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/23/2007 6:54 PM |
|
I havent dusted off AoD for long longtime, (and i should.)
I think I would play him with 80pts. Low 70's a bit cheap imo. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Tooninki
Warrior
272 Posts
Finland
| | 09/23/2007 10:23 PM |
| Hmm, where did you find that pic?
In my card theres no Independent, i would really much like to if any errata exists. | |
Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/23/2007 10:26 PM |
| At least a couple of the cards on wizards site are wrong. (eg no DC for Aspect of Orcus death blow).
I assume the independent is wrong too (though I havent checked my card.)
Bifurs doesnt have independent listed, tho really the wizards site should be more accurate ... hmm maybe worth asking WoTC.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
|
Tooninki
Warrior
272 Posts
Finland
| | 09/23/2007 10:29 PM |
| Theres no Independent in the card found in Wizards errata page: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mi/errata
But its independent in a card found in Vesivus: http://www.vesivus.com/minis/Pts_101.htm | |
Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Tooninki
Warrior
272 Posts
Finland
| | 09/23/2007 10:31 PM |
| | So what say WoTC gurus?! Witch one is it, Independent or not?! | |
Life is...
Vindicated AtG shot: Shadow Giant (Death Titan)
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/23/2007 10:44 PM |
| I just emailed cust service and will see if they say anything (am avoiding WoTC boards atm).
But all the aspect from archfiends (demogogon, bane, lolth, orcus) have interpendent listed as special ability and I'm sure none are such on card. (plus Orcus death blow DC disappeared).
I wonder if the pdf they used for the warband generator predates the actual card printing and they withdraw those abilties to better cost the minis (after all with speed=2 OCC back then, interpendent meant a heck of a lot more).
Flavour wise it makes more sence to have the aspects as interdependent but
~
'scuse the thread hijack btw Lord_Rock | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 09/24/2007 11:26 AM |
| I'll say the comparison to the Marilith is very fair. In your comparisons the speed advantage actually goes to the AoD with its dual activation otherwise you can't compare the number of attacks. I think putting the AoD in the low 70's (71-74) is reasonable.
When compared to the Marilith the AoD is more versatile but probably not as game altering. What make Demogorgon hard to value is the use of Dual Activation. Without DualA I'd say Demogorgon easly gets down to 50 or so points inspite of its very high (for CE) AC, Dual Activation helps its mobility and pathetic offense but can actually hurt it from a defensive standpoint. The other strenght/weakness of Dual Activation is that it uses two activation. The Marilith can move two and make six attacks with another piece acting in that same turn but is Demogorgon moves two it only gets one attack and then has to take its second activation to get another attack followed by either the third attack or moving away. Physically the Aspect doesn't stand up to the Marilith and should be priced less but its versatility with Dual Activation puts its back up with her.
Looking at the physical card (have have two of the darn things) the Aspect of Demogorgon does NOT have independant. It may have been run in commanderless warbands before because with its high save it is just as likely to make morale as many CE pieces had been with a commander around; a very risky thing but then playing the Aspect always has been.
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bigfruits
Sneak
58 Posts
| | 09/24/2007 1:59 PM |
| id like to try him at 71 pts. ill try to use him this week. if youre still looking for non LE suggestions to recost, i think the silver sorcerer would be fun to use. | |
Completed trades:
Aldarionn,amnuxoll,brothernoah,Mong,Wayne,Mullins,HockeyFan,IHawk,Lab Monkey,Satsujin Kingyo,nyjastul69,hardinjmm,frogrodeo,Ghendar,Tactician
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/24/2007 4:41 PM |
| It wasn't a thread Hi-jack... independent or not is a huge deal for this piece.
There is one more big negative to Dual Activation that I don't think people have thought of yet... Aspect of Demogorgon is immune to poison but there are a few effects that last over multiple activations (mordies swords for example or spiritual weapon). If you wish to fully utilize this piece then you take dmg ever time it activates. There aren't too many that effect him fully due to his resistances but the ones that do are huge. Luckily, for purposes of this exercise we don't have to worry about what other figures will come out to make this more signifigant. It is unlikely that much will come out in DOD that will make a huge impact on this ability.
My guess is that you'll likely activate him twice on a round that he routes as well. Possibly making him routable in one round... another big disadvantage (but also likely that the second save will get him back into combat sooner so never mind really).
I'm still sitting on 70-71... any less would be a bit too much but he is less potent than the marilith. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3964 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/24/2007 4:48 PM |
| | The 5 better AC is why I would price closer to 80. Though without interpendent i'd agree with 71. | |
"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/24/2007 7:10 PM |
| | I like 71 for the Aspect of Demogorgon as well. Been skirmishing since the days of Harbinger, and one player in our group used to play the Aspect of Demogorgon once in a while - it is not independent. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/24/2007 9:52 PM |
| Woot... Great participation on this piece... I also feel like I'm starting to the hang of this game!
It's a bit funny that independent made such a big difference. shows you how powerful cmd assassintion still is... it was my primary objective back in Harbinger days and it's still one of the most viable play styles.
So anyone playtesting anything yet? I've heard a few volunteers on all the threads... any amazing results? any duds??? We've got a pretty good list going so far.
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Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/27/2007 8:51 PM |
| So...
Aspect of Demogorgon 71
WWL 53
Lg Black Dragon 44
Wardrummer 19
with 13 pts of fodder... hopefully 3 activations.. I like it a lot. Flank with blacky and demogorgon and put the hurt on then bring in the big boy for the finish... Moral is great and you can get up to 9 activations if you like. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/30/2007 8:58 AM |
| Playtest Results:
Aspect of Demogorgon is not 71pts... Ray of enfeeblement = worthless piece of plastic!!!
D'oh!!!
Basically you have to have some att boosting via placement and or CFX to have any chance with the Aspect of Demogorgon. With optimium use of MW, flanking, and the cfx of the Bugbear Champ of E. you might get him up to some respectable dmg. That's about the only way I can see poor prince of demons working. +16/16/16/16 for 10m+5/10m+5/10m+5/10m+5 doesn't cut the mustard for 71pts. Without dual activation, you'd see better returns if he had his gaze att.
Now I'm looking at the aspect as a mini titan... the best mini titan we've had so far has been the Aspect of Kord surprisingly. at 65pts (and not a great 65 in today's meta) there is lots of room for buffs to his lower ac and Hp. There is also a big big att there at +18 for 30 (or 40 or more). So he has the offensive firepower and can easily get up to the same defensive stature with CODA and anyone who can cast sheild of faith or divine protection. Things really go up for Kord when you add the SS.
So lets check this out...
Kord+coutal Vs. AOD + BBCE
In two activations Kord does +18/18 for 30/30 (or 40/30) Vs. Aspect of Demogorgon at +14/14/14/14 for 10m/10m/10m/10m (maybe +5 to all 4 atts). Kord also has nearly the same energy protection (lacking in DR and Immune to poison and elect vs. resist 10 elect)... Kord might miss one att vs. the Aspect but can charge and only miss 20% of the time ont the first and 30% on the second and still get 2 atts... if demogorgon gets the drop on Kord and charges he'll miss Kords AC 15% of the time but lose out on 10-15 dmg the att wasted by the charge. After that first att he'll also miss Kord 20% of the time and Demogorgon can't let Kord go first or he'll be eating an extra 10dmg at a higher att... sad but true.
After looking at this comparison it would be hard not to cost the Aspect of Demogoron at the same cost as Kord!.. yep, I like comparing all titany pieces to the aspect of kord...
So my new price is 65pts... For his cost the Aspect of demogorgon just can't put out enough dmg since it is spread over 4 att's and 2 activations. His dual activation and resistances makes him a lot tougher but he needs it as that's all he's really got. And if you're playing against an opponent with nerfing abilities you're screwed if it goes off... This with lack of buffing of anything but moral saves (which the Aspect of Demogorgon has above average of anyway) and minor att or dmg boosts (that are often good for Demogorgon but better for another figure in the faction) leaves Demogorgon in a horrible possition.
Anyway... so he's not as hot as I liked... I know he'll get voted in for the allstars set... and I can't wait to see what they do to make him worth his pts (i'm seeing a drop in ac of 1-2, 10-20 hp, +2 att, +5 dmg, 2 gaze att's, and an ability similar to the Thrall's Haste that is usable multiple times or dual activation) | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/30/2007 12:27 PM |
| I'm not sure about dropping Demogorgon to 65. I see your comparison when adding Couatl to Kord and BBCE to Demogorgon. But, Demogorgon has a lot of natural defenses in a faction that is not supposed to be too defensive. Dual activation really rocks in the right situations too.
I agree that ray of enfeeblement totally kills Demogorgon, but it kills Marilith too. Everything has to have a weakness. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 09/30/2007 6:18 PM |
| The weakness isn't only in the dmg... it's that the dmg is spread out over 4 atts at bareable bonuses that take 2 activations. Even without being enfeebled there are many CE pieces that completely out whack the Aspect of Demogorgon... The Aspects four att's almost have to hit to be worthwhile and on average on will miss a med. ac a round.
Even if the Marilith is enfeebled she can still grind out 60 dmg a round at the same bonus of an un nerfed demogorgon... Demogorgon goes down to 20dmg a round if all four att's hit. At that point you can completely ignore 71pts of your oppnents army (or simply go for the kill since it is 71pts of your opponents army). The threat just doesn't match the defense. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 10/02/2007 9:51 PM |
| don't let this one die out!!!
Convince me!!!??? | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 10/02/2007 10:41 PM |
| Posted By Lord_rock on 09/30/2007 6:18 PM
Even if the Marilith is enfeebled she can still grind out 60 dmg a round at the same bonus of an un nerfed demogorgon... Demogorgon goes down to 20dmg a round if all four att's hit. At that point you can completely ignore 71pts of your oppnents army (or simply go for the kill since it is 71pts of your opponents army). The threat just doesn't match the defense.
No. An enfeebled Marilith goes down to 30 dmg a round, not 60. More or less the same thing. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 10/03/2007 3:23 PM |
| | that's what I get for not checking spoilers!!! I swore she did 15 a pop... must have been confusing her att with dmg or the fact that she was always run with the doomgaurd or tielfing blademaster... dang it... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
| Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
11730 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 10/03/2007 3:40 PM |
| | So, we're okay with around 71 now, boss? I think its defenses in CE are too good to go much lower than that. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2019 Posts
Portland OR
| | 10/03/2007 5:18 PM |
| 71 still feels high but more thorough play testing really is required on this piece... just so much can happen. It is very defensive in a faction that doesn't have big defense and is known for high dmg output (which it cannot do)... I'll keep ya'll posted. I'm not done with this one quite yet.
Definetly keep it coming... this has been the most talked about fig so far...
And keep reminding me to check spoilers... my brain just ain't working as well as it used to. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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