Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
    
West Valley City, Utah
 | | 05/12/2005 2:21 AM |
| | recovered topic 3528 | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/12/2005 2:21 AM |
| | Haven't seen it, but I would say yes. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| |
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 7:01 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glauron
I now have a role model if ever I contemplate playing a paladin. He had the code, but did sleeping with the queen disqualify him from paladinhood?
Not neccesarily. It all depends on the tenets of faith and service so to speak. It would probably be frowned on (especially by the king) but rules against premarital sex do not exist in every religious order. | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 05/12/2005 7:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glauron
I now have a role model if ever I contemplate playing a paladin. He had the code, but did sleeping with the queen disqualify him from paladinhood?
Just reaffirmed his manhood. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 05/12/2005 7:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by glauron
I used to think Orlando was a wimp (albeit a good-looking one). Legolas, Paris, and whoever he played in Pirates of the Caribbean. But dark hair and beard and some awesomely good paladin roleplaying in Kingdom of Heaven has me rethinking young Orlando.
You thought Legolas was a wimp????? He's possibly the most awesome elf in fantasy literature. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
| |
|
Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 7:26 AM |
| No, Legolas had some fancy moves (courtesy of special effects) and was a great archer (it never mentions him missing in a script). But Bloom added nothing to that part. In Pirates he was the most tolerable as straight man to Depp, In Troy he made me want to bang my head against a wall until he went away.
I'm probably going to have to give Kingdom of Heaven a pass.
To pull back to the point though. How much a paladin is he meant to be playing? Is it strictly a warrior for God, or is he actually laying on hands and the like? (I know nothing about this movie) | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
| |
|
Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/12/2005 8:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
To pull back to the point though. How much a paladin is he meant to be playing? Is it strictly a warrior for God, or is he actually laying on hands and the like? (I know nothing about this movie)
Well considering that it is a 'Historical' Action film based on the war against Saladin and his Saracens I don't think I expect to see much laying on hands. Well except for the part where he's 'Laying on Hands' with the Queen! [)] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
| |
|
glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 05/12/2005 8:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Siddartha of Suburbia
No, Legolas had some fancy moves (courtesy of special effects) and was a great archer (it never mentions him missing in a script). But Bloom added nothing to that part. In Pirates he was the most tolerable as straight man to Depp, In Troy he made me want to bang my head against a wall until he went away.
I'm probably going to have to give Kingdom of Heaven a pass.
To pull back to the point though. How much a paladin is he meant to be playing? Is it strictly a warrior for God, or is he actually laying on hands and the like? (I know nothing about this movie)
Sid, it is a movie I would recommend. He isn't playing a paladin, but he behaves like one, terrifically so. I am not a Bloom fan (this has changed slightly thanks to KoH), but it's a period of history I was interested in. I liked the movie. Bloom is much better than he was in the other 3 films IMHO.
He isn't a warrior for God crusader, in fact he is sort of anti crusader, but very pro God (again IMHO). A paladin with heart, and despite the regal indiscretion, of pure heart.
You would enjoy it. | |
I have always been here. | |
|
Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 9:25 AM |
| Viewers will probably spend most of the film determining whether they buy Bloom as an unflappable, chest-thumping warrior. He goes from looking like the sweetest, prettiest elf in the "Lord of the Rings" movies to looking like Barry Gibb in this one. His quest to be the manliest man to star in a Crusades epic becomes so obvious, so overwhelming, that he overdoes it. His desire to be more macho than multidimensional even scorches the chemistry he has with Eva Green, the French treat from "The Dreamers" who plays King Baldwin's sister, the soon-to-be-Queen Sibylla.
The quote above is taken from the only review I've seen of the film. It has a ring of truth to it, I admit. Regardless, I'll soon be sitting there in the dark watching yet another fantasy epic posing as "history." Yummmmm.
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 05/12/2005 9:42 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Vulturedoodle
[i]He goes from looking like the sweetest, prettiest elf in the "Lord of the Rings" movies to looking like Barry Gibb in this one.
LOL! That's very funny. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
| |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 5:01 PM |
| Out of curiosity, how does Saladin come off in the movie and how are the crusaders portrayed?
I know the basics of that particular bit of history and the crusaders were pretty corrupt and evil (don't start with me on the evil thing...) by then, having pretty much dominated the area for like a hundred years. Saladin was a major hero and a total legend and totally worthy of paladin-hood if anyone was; so I'm curious to know if they portray him as the evil one and the crusaders as the good guys. | |
Bite me. | |
|
Avatar of the Irrelevant
Diomedes
Commander
3173 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 5:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
Out of curiosity, how does Saladin come off in the movie and how are the crusaders portrayed?
I know the basics of that particular bit of history and the crusaders were pretty corrupt and evil (don't start with me on the evil thing...) by then, having pretty much dominated the area for like a hundred years. Saladin was a major hero and a total legend and totally worthy of paladin-hood if anyone was; so I'm curious to know if they portray him as the evil one and the crusaders as the good guys.
I was curious about this myself. Saladin has always been a minor hero of mine as well ;)
-Diomedes
| |
| |
|
warty_nosed_goblin
Underboss
1384 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 6:26 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Diomedes
quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
Out of curiosity, how does Saladin come off in the movie and how are the crusaders portrayed?
I know the basics of that particular bit of history and the crusaders were pretty corrupt and evil (don't start with me on the evil thing...) by then, having pretty much dominated the area for like a hundred years. Saladin was a major hero and a total legend and totally worthy of paladin-hood if anyone was; so I'm curious to know if they portray him as the evil one and the crusaders as the good guys.
I was curious about this myself. Saladin has always been a minor hero of mine as well ;)
-Diomedes
He came off pretty well, maybe not a pure paladin, perhaps a still LG (relatively speaking) paladin with a few levels of fighter or something afterwords
| |
Call me: W.N. Gobo!
originally posted by grim:
While he is clearly insane, he does have a point. | |
|
IanB
Commander
3112 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 6:57 PM |
| In Troy he made me want to bang my head against a wall until he went away.
That's actually a good thing - I mean, Paris is generally an intolerable twit in pretty much every version of the story. He got the character right! :) | |
Anson on WotC boards | |
|
Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 05/12/2005 7:20 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
Out of curiosity, how does Saladin come off in the movie and how are the crusaders portrayed?
I know the basics of that particular bit of history and the crusaders were pretty corrupt and evil (don't start with me on the evil thing...) by then, having pretty much dominated the area for like a hundred years. Saladin was a major hero and a total legend and totally worthy of paladin-hood if anyone was; so I'm curious to know if they portray him as the evil one and the crusaders as the good guys.
I think the portrayal was accurate, by hollywood "standards". The crusaders were shown to be men, swept up in the desire to gain land, fame, fortune, and glory, and find escape from the poverty spreading across Europe. They were shown to be led by other men, some bloodthirsty and some trying in vain to be noble and/or do the "right thing" in the midst of corruption.
Much like glauron mentioned, Bloom's character stands out as an example of what a paladin might try to be, standing out more due to the contrast with the evil and corrupt (or the ones that simply didn't care for the locals or for their fellow men).
The movie promotes Saladin as a man who, while not neccesarily good-hearted, was a man of honor. His army was a threat to the defenders of Jerusalem, but was an army with a just cause, and the crusaders (the Templars, specifically) are shown to be the warmongers. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 1:36 AM |
| I enjoyed this movie. However, I tend to go to movies to be entertained -- which is their purpose. I'm not going to learn something -- I already know this. Few movies teach me things. If I want that, I have the History/Discovery/etc... Channels.
If you'd like to see a period piece, go. If you want to be entertained, go. If you have another positive reason, go. That's about all there really is to it. | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
| |
|
Oni
Underboss
1131 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 2:51 AM |
| Well I was wondering the same thing as Iksander, but in the reverse. Today it is great to pick on the crusaders, and lable them all as evil. However it was always the Knights Templar that where the honarable knights of well any time in history in my book. The stories of 100 Templar routing armies six times there size where what I loved as a child, and still do.
As it is said, and always will be. We all have our heroes, and our villans no matter what anyone tries to tell us. I love the Templar, I believe Saladin was a very noble person. I have nothing but hatred, and contempt for the hospitallers.
| |
"...don’t try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox
Champion of the Nymph!
| |
|
Zardnaar
Sergeant
522 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 2:55 AM |
| | Saladin and Blooms character in DnD would both be LG fighters. Saladin kills a prisoner (an evil one though) and Blooms character murders a priest who was an A hole but not really deserving of a sword in him. | |
Trades: dj-chuckles (complete)
Sales: Kestral.ca
Bad Trade: Chaotic Good | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 3:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Oni
The stories of 100 Templar routing armies six times there size where what I loved as a child, and still do.
That doesn't mean they were good people, just good fighters. And I hate to tell you this, but I'm fairly certain it was the Templars that were responsible for some of the most heinous acts in history...
quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
I enjoyed this movie. However, I tend to go to movies to be entertained -- which is their purpose. I'm not going to learn something -- I already know this. Few movies teach me things. If I want that, I have the History/Discovery/etc... Channels.
Here, here~!
I hate preachy movies that are trying to 'teach' us something. Yeah, like the friggin' director or screen-writer is someone so damned spiritual and enlightened that they can educate the world or something, pish-tosh. | |
Bite me. | |
|
Oni
Underboss
1131 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 4:12 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
quote:
Originally posted by Oni
The stories of 100 Templar routing armies six times there size where what I loved as a child, and still do.
That doesn't mean they were good people, just good fighters. And I hate to tell you this, but I'm fairly certain it was the Templars that were responsible for some of the most heinous acts in history...
Well I think you have the wrong order, but that may just be me. Anywho should have started my own thread instead of highjacking this one sorry about that [:I].
quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
I enjoyed this movie. However, I tend to go to movies to be entertained -- which is their purpose. I'm not going to learn something -- I already know this. Few movies teach me things. If I want that, I have the History/Discovery/etc... Channels.
Here, here~!
I hate preachy movies that are trying to 'teach' us something. Yeah, like the friggin' director or screen-writer is someone so damned spiritual and enlightened that they can educate the world or something, pish-tosh.
I agree with you both on this one. Just how preachy does this movie get? | |
"...don’t try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox
Champion of the Nymph!
| |
|
The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 4:32 AM |
| | I just want to know if the guy can do anything other than period/fantasy pieces. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 8:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I just want to know if the guy can do anything other than period/fantasy pieces.
Not knowing how you define "period/fantasy," I still hazard the following possibilities:
Alien
Thelma & Louise
White Squall
GI Jane
Blackhawk Down
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
| |
|
Oni
Underboss
1131 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 11:42 AM |
| | He is in Alien? | |
"...don’t try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox
Champion of the Nymph!
| |
|
Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 2:00 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Oni
He is in Alien?
Ah, I see. He was referring to Orlando. I was talking about Ridley.
--Steve [:I] | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
| |
|
Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 05/13/2005 2:58 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Oni
quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
I enjoyed this movie. However, I tend to go to movies to be entertained -- which is their purpose. I'm not going to learn something -- I already know this. Few movies teach me things. If I want that, I have the History/Discovery/etc... Channels.
Here, here~!
I hate preachy movies that are trying to 'teach' us something. Yeah, like the friggin' director or screen-writer is someone so damned spiritual and enlightened that they can educate the world or something, pish-tosh.
I agree with you both on this one. Just how preachy does this movie get?
Actually, I don't think it was a "preachy" movie. It was more a story of how two honourable opponents (leaders) could, at one time, wage war and still do the noble thing in the end. This was 1184, when chivalry did still exist, even in the most unlikely individuals.
If I had to assign an alignment to Saladin, I would choose Lawful Neutral. He did everything to protect his people, lawfully. He upheld any oath he pledged himself to and gave quarter to those who asked for it with sincerity (albeit, that is not shown much in the movie).
It is not entirely historically accurate; however, I think Bloom held his own and proved he's becoming a better actor. Like any other star, it takes time and experience to improve. | |
Trade & talk in real time on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis SOFTWARE: PC | PC (free) | MAC
Champion of ALL Dragons and the Dragon Shaman
][ My Trade Shoppe ][ Vindicated Champion of Aspects of Draconic Deities
| |
|
Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/14/2005 3:35 AM |
| Well in a few article I've read a number of "Historians" were upset that the movie was too pro-Saladin and that the movie over-looked all the atrocities that Saladin commited. While we know that the Templar weren't any sort of angels (except for Oni![:P]). This movie is said to ignore Saladins short-comings as well.
Keep in mind I haven't seen the film, this is only what I read sometime last week. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
| |
|
kestrel.ca
Underboss
1684 Posts
| | 05/14/2005 11:44 PM |
| | Sure they overlooked Saladin's shortcomings -- he wasn't the main focus of the movie. He was simply a foil for Bloom's character. Not quite sure where the idea for "lowly blacksmith becomes de facto king of Jerusalem" came from -- kind of cheesy. But the movie overall was quite entertaining, and, according to my historian wife, as historically accurate as can be expected from Hollywood movies. It's probably a movie I'll pick up on DVD when it comes out. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
|
Iksander
Underboss
1010 Posts
| | 05/16/2005 9:09 PM |
| I'm no historian but from the history I know of Saladin, he was a model of paladinhood if ever there was one and did NOT commit atrocities. From the history I've seen, he was essentially the embodiment of all that the Christians in Jerusalem were not, BECAUSE of what the Christians in Jerusalem were like and how they treated the local populace and muslims for 100 years.
It was as if he purposefully did everything contrary to the way things were done by the Christians because he hated them so much. He gave quarter to his enemies when the Christians did not, he gave succor to the helpless when the Christians did not, and gave free passage to those who wished to leave his (by right) lands.
As for the movie, I wasn't impressed. I felt it tried to be way more than it was and so failed in all respects to be anything at all, really. I found myself bored half-way through and wondering when something worthwhile was going to happen. The main character was totally uninspiring on any level. The movie showed virtually no justification or reasoning behind his actions and the only thing he ever really did was parrot others who had taught him. It was a weak character, weakly portrayed. Orlando was not ready to carry a film and I think his career will now suffer because of it. | |
Bite me. | |
|
glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 05/17/2005 2:46 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Iksander
I'm no historian but from the history I know of Saladin, he was a model of paladinhood if ever there was one and did NOT commit atrocities. From the history I've seen, he was essentially the embodiment of all that the Christians in Jerusalem were not, BECAUSE of what the Christians in Jerusalem were like and how they treated the local populace and muslims for 100 years.
It was as if he purposefully did everything contrary to the way things were done by the Christians because he hated them so much. He gave quarter to his enemies when the Christians did not, he gave succor to the helpless when the Christians did not, and gave free passage to those who wished to leave his (by right) lands.
As for the movie, I wasn't impressed. I felt it tried to be way more than it was and so failed in all respects to be anything at all, really. I found myself bored half-way through and wondering when something worthwhile was going to happen. The main character was totally uninspiring on any level. The movie showed virtually no justification or reasoning behind his actions and the only thing he ever really did was parrot others who had taught him. It was a weak character, weakly portrayed. Orlando was not ready to carry a film and I think his career will now suffer because of it.
LMAO.
Why don't you tell us what you really think? | |
I have always been here. | |
|
Retired Tank
Vulturedoodle
Sergeant
791 Posts
| | 05/20/2005 5:10 PM |
| Saw KoH yesterday, while everyone else stood in line for Star Wars. Blech. Easily one of the worst I've seen in a good long time (and I usually love this kind of film). Ignoring all the historical and technical questions (i.e., Balion was a blacksmith...musta been one hell of a quick learner to know so much about seige warfare), I have one pressing question:
What happened to the king on the donkey? Where'd he go?
Regards,
Steve F. | |
Vaughan: You seem like a thinker. You seem to always be deep in thought. So what are you thinking right now?
Karl: I'm thinking I could use some more o' that potted meat, if you got any extry.
H/W List <|>Trades
| |
|