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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
    
West Valley City, Utah
 | | 05/18/2005 3:09 AM |
| | recovered topic 3730 | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6805 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 05/18/2005 3:09 AM |
| Sorry if I don't offer much of any advice.
Wow. That's a lot of followers. That sure could be interesting assigning different miniatures for each one.
I am currently a level 7 character in my campaign and have never been above that before. That's why I am not even trying for advice. I do think that your dual bodyguard idea is a very good one. For interest, have each one have different specialties. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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Oni
Underboss
1131 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 3:18 AM |
| Thanks Corim. I have not played (or even DMed) a game this high. I have no idea what to expect from a high end game like this. I am sure he is not going to toast us as he asked us to make them so he could have some head villans for his world.
I figure even 402 lvl 1's would be a snack for any epic encounter monster. I don't want a fighting guildmaster though I want a skilled one. So would a noncombat rogue get smashed with an epic encounter?
I am going into this blind. I feel this being my first game as a player in a long time this is going to go down badly. The other players talked him into it, and I am along from the ride. They know the epic lvl handbook like they know the players handbook (I opened it for the first time yesterday). What I am saying is I don't want to be a drag on the rest of the group. I know with controlling 4 characters I am sure I should be able to hold my own, but I am just not sure [:(].
Man I am already missing the other side of the DM screen... | |
"...don’t try to outweird me, I get stranger things than you free with my breakfast cereal."
- Zaphod Beeblebrox
Champion of the Nymph!
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/18/2005 3:50 AM |
| | I think your going to have to invest in some combat abilities (improved feint, combat expertise, weapon finesse), think of it this way you are the guildmaster of a Thieves Guild!! [)]Do you have any idea how much backstabbing and cutthroat activities are going on in your organization?? Who knows maybe that Warlock is tired of playing second fiddle to you. Combat should be invested into at least a little bit. But skills are great, don't think for a second you can let those lapse! [:D] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 05/18/2005 6:48 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Monsoon28
I think your going to have to invest in some combat abilities (improved feint, combat expertise, weapon finesse), think of it this way you are the guildmaster of a Thieves Guild!! [)]Do you have any idea how much backstabbing and cutthroat activities are going on in your organization?? Who knows maybe that Warlock is tired of playing second fiddle to you. Combat should be invested into at least a little bit. But skills are great, don't think for a second you can let those lapse! [:D]
I agree. Look at the feats quick draw and flick of the wrist. It's pretty nice. | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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Okay McKay
Underboss
1068 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 9:46 AM |
| Those skills are very interesting, but mostly niche abilities... I mean, how often are you going to feign weakness to suck in the bad guy and then flick the wrist? Even then, will you kill him? And, after that, you can't use it any more in that combat. (Right?)
It is definitely on the role-playing axis and not on the powergaming axis, imo. I try to straddle the two lines as much as possible, myself and use the "statistics" of the PC to make him combat-effective and to do the roleplaying 99% out-of-combat. But that's just me.
Did I just go off on a diatribe? | |
"It's an automatic robot, based on science." | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1684 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 9:53 AM |
| The other side of the feint move, is the Improved Feint feat. As a move action, you can bluff, possibly causing flat-footed condition and allowing sneak attack. One big attack against flat-footed with xd6 bonus to damage? Gets nasty very, very quickly.
Another nasty combo might be to invest in some Use Magic Device ranks, and then pick up some scrolls (or other magic item) which grants Greater Invisibility -- auto sneak attack damage again! With a high Move Silently score, and Inviso, you'll be almost undetectable, able to cause massive damage at will. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/18/2005 10:59 AM |
| | A good Idea the problem is at those high levels so many people tend to have some way to see invisible. | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/18/2005 11:09 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Okay McKay
Those skills are very interesting, but mostly niche abilities... I mean, how often are you going to feign weakness to suck in the bad guy and then flick the wrist? Even then, will you kill him? And, after that, you can't use it any more in that combat. (Right?)
It is definitely on the role-playing axis and not on the powergaming axis, imo. I try to straddle the two lines as much as possible, myself and use the "statistics" of the PC to make him combat-effective and to do the roleplaying 99% out-of-combat. But that's just me.
Did I just go off on a diatribe?
Gotta agree! [:)]
Of course Oni if you are the guild-leader of the goody-two-shoes thieves guild you don't need any combat skills at all! [:P] [:O]
Maybe your the leader of a reformed thieves guild who goes about thief-proofing castles, dungeons and noble manors! Now that's a great Idea! :Smart-Alec:
[:D] | |
"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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| Hero of the Force
Siddartha of Suburbia
Underboss
2277 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 11:18 AM |
| I can't even fathom reaching 20th level, let alone starting there.
That's a heck of a lot of followers, think about having a few some of them involved in honest business, no shadiness, tavernworkers and the like. Good font of info.
Or just take the army of rogues you have move to a smaller city and take over.[:D] | |
"We can't stop here...This Is Bat country!"
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 11:36 AM |
| | Pit the level 1 lackeys against each other in arena-style deathmatches. Charge admission and run the gambling. You should rake in the GP. Once the level 1s have gained enough xp to get to level 2, pool in the level 2s and do it again. Continue until the lackeys are high enough level to give some reasonable XP to you or your Cohorts. Congratulations, you just transformed feats into XP and GP. [:D] | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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frostrune
Sergeant
357 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 1:15 PM |
| Hey Oni,
Epic level stuff is complicated regardless of the character class you are running. I highly doubt your DM will encourage you to directly run any except your highest level cohorts and even then that may make things exceedingly complicated for both you and he. Not to mention they will most likely be mowed down in a blink of an eye.
As the rogue in an epic group you want to be able to avoid damage as much as possible (because your hp's and AC will suck comparitively) and be able to strike a decisive blow when the opportunity presents itself. Other than that you will be the 'skill' guy. A well run epic game should challenge players to use all their resources to solve a problem. Information is a HUGE resource and since you are asking for advice, that is what I think you should tailor your guild to help provide. Your eyes and ears on the street can find and monitor people hidden from magical scrying and have a chance to learn important information. I see the vast majority of your network being 'off-screen'. That said, you would be helping yourself and the DM if you put some serious thought into your organization. There was a great product put out by TSR sometime in the 90's that gave the DM a ready made guild (I can't remember the name). It broke the organization into sub-guilds where lieutenants each controlled an arm: fences and money lenders, thugs and enforcers, assassins, burglars, spies, gambling & racketeering, street thieves, beggars... you could probably come up with more. These section were further broken down into bosses for certain districts, day and night managers, group leaders, etc. As you can see this could easily chew up your several hundred followers. You will also want your personal guard. Men you hope you can actually trust (This is a a thieves guild remember?).
Hopefully this was helpful to you. Good luck.
Frostrune
BTW - the epic level handbook has another chart for leadership and I'm sure it handles leadership scores over 25. It may only apply to Epic Leadership though - can't remember. | |
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=frostrune
Completed trades (42):
"Hello? It's not called a 'suicide bag' because it has a time delay." | |
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Monsoon28
Underboss
2313 Posts
Toronto
| | 05/18/2005 6:21 PM |
| Frostrune forgot one VERY vital branch of your thieves guild, yup you guessed it, prostitution. Setting up both a proper Cathouse as well at streetwalkers (both female & male) not only brings in cash, but is another font of information, besides it's a great way to assassinate someone! [)] [}:)]
Also watch a few films like: Gangs of New York if you haven't already, good movie and it should give you a few ideas. [}:)]
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"I was sittin' here eatin' my muffin, drinkin' my coffee, replayin' the incident in my head, when I had what alcoholics refer to as a moment of clarity." - Jules Winnfield
Sales/Trades Bad (1): Ironfist Boulderbender
Trades/Sales completed (8.): Danthl, Dafrca, Garyaxe, qillan_dvra, realmaster, Vandal_Savage, cavedweller, unearthed arcana.
Champion of Gem Dragons, VINDICATED Squire of Duergar Commander, Knight of the Astral Stalker.
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 05/18/2005 8:41 PM |
| Stats, feats, cohorts, followers, skills, etc are all fine. However, playing a character so advanced must call for building the character first. His(/her) history. His habits. It's RPG not just the skirmish we all know. I suggest to concentrate on the character and only then bother with game mechanics. After all, a character that lived up to such an advanced level will sure have enough abilities. In my eyes its the background that matters. The story. After all I see D&D as a tale written by several people in real time.
Since you start playing your character when it already did its share in the world, you can at least build it level by level, creating a plausible story about the ways it learned all the skills and feats. This way you'll get at least somewhat developed character with history without too much work. Had I been the DM I would have joined you (and the other players) in the process, since starting at some level you would sure have an impact on the world, creating allies, enemies, and influencing the world in general.
I know this is not much of the advice you requested, but that seem to be the most important essence of the game as I see it. Have fun playing again... | |
Champion of Cockatrices.
I wish I never wished a wand of wishing. (Wishful thinking.)
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