Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
    
 | | 06/28/2005 2:21 PM |
| | recovered topic 5282 | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 2:21 PM |
| | Try the Miniatures Handbook. It's either a zero-level or one-level cost to apply it to a spell; you pick an energy type when you choose the feat, and then when preparing your spell, you can elect to change its energy type to the type chosen when you took the feat. I think it could be good for sorcerors. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:13 PM |
| Well, it appears in Tome & Blood, Miniatures Handbook (called Energy Affinity) and in Complete Arcane.
You can take this feat once for every energy type (Fire, Air, Earth & Water) and you can change the energy type of your spells to the chosen type(those that have energy subtype). It doesn't impose any level modification to the spell but you do have to prepare it in advance or pay a full-round action for it. (wizard / sorcerrer metamagic). The books does not limit it to arcane magic, but I agree that it more valuable to them. | |
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:27 PM |
| | Sonic was the min/maxer's energy of choice because so few creatures have resistance/immunity to it. | |
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adept
Warrior
336 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:43 PM |
| | [edited by adept] Sorry just realized that I could get in troble if I posted it word for word from the book | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 06/28/2005 3:47 PM |
| Hmmmm, I responded to this thread twice. Where did they go?
I KNOW I'm not imagining it. | |
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1684 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 3:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Hmmmm, I responded to this thread twice. Where did they go?
I KNOW I'm not imagining it.
Is the new anti-spam software in effect? [)] | |
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Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 4:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by adept
It appears in Tome + Blood and this is my favorite feat.
Energy Substitution [Metamagic]
[...]
Isn't that copyrighted material?
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It's deja vu all over again. | |
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adept
Warrior
336 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 4:17 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Gristlemane
[quote]Originally posted by adept
Isn't that copyrighted material?
Ummm.... I think you might be right..... I'll edit it now then. Sorry | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12356 Posts
The G Spot
| | 06/28/2005 4:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by kestrel.ca
quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Hmmmm, I responded to this thread twice. Where did they go?
I KNOW I'm not imagining it.
Is the new anti-spam software in effect? [)]
I've become too predictable. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM
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MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 6:48 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
Hmmmm, I responded to this thread twice. Where did they go?
I KNOW I'm not imagining it.
Yes, I did post this once before. Yesterday, in fact. The post had vanished before I had the chance to read any of the replies.
This helps lots guys. Thanks! | |
John
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MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 6:55 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by madda
It doesn't impose any level modification to the spell but you do have to prepare it in advance or pay a full-round action for it.
So does this mean that the caster would have to act last that round or does it mean he would have to skip a round in preparation and then be able to cast next round? | |
John
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MackeyJ
Underboss
1414 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 7:15 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MackeyJ
quote:
Originally posted by madda
It doesn't impose any level modification to the spell but you do have to prepare it in advance or pay a full-round action for it.
So does this mean that the caster would have to act last that round or does it mean he would have to skip a round in preparation and then be able to cast next round?
Oh man, I'm still thinking old school. Full round action just means that the caster wouldn't be able to cast and move in the same round right? | |
John
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madda
Sergeant
714 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 7:34 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by MackeyJ
So does this mean that the caster would have to act last that round or does it mean he would have to skip a round in preparation and then be able to cast next round?
Oh man, I'm still thinking old school. Full round action just means that the caster wouldn't be able to cast and move in the same round right?
The full round action for casting a metamagic spell (by sorcerer or bard, and spntaneosly cure by cleric) is different than the usuall full round spell. It takes effect in the same round you begin casting and you need not continue your gestures. It simply so exhaustign that you cannot also move during that round. (And BTW, if the spell takes more than 1 standard action to start with, just add a full round action to its casting time).
If this was a regular spell that takes more than standard action you'd be right about the effect starting only before your next round.
You can read about it here (standard) :
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#standardCastaSpell
and here (full round):
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#fullRoundCastaSpell
(It's from the SRD so there are no copyright problems here) | |
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devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 06/28/2005 8:17 PM |
| I can't speak for all but I'm playing an Evoker/Elemental Savant (fire) currently in a game and I've made extensive use out of this feat along with a few others that tweak and are geared for maximizing his damage.
My personal favorite has been watching an opposing wizard see me cast an "Ice Storm" only to have it hit his ranks and rain down fire and smoking stones instead. Lots of different applications just depends what your making for in the use of the feat. | |
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Lady-Bast
Warrior
242 Posts
Central Illinois
| | 07/02/2005 3:31 PM |
| Have to agree that sonic is probably the best choice for this feat. Too many creatures have fire resistance and too many PC's and NPC's are prepared for the very common fire and ice spells.
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Darastrix Maekrix
dariustad
Warlord
6322 Posts
| | 07/02/2005 3:39 PM |
| Which energy type you choose really depends on what version of the feat you use.
In 3.0, Sonic was a valid energy type.
In 3.5, Sonic is an illegal choice. It is now limited to: fire, cold, acid, electricity. My usual recommendation is acid or electricity, depending on what your DM loves to throw at you. There are too many fire immune/resistant things, and most undead and another slew of monsters are immune to cold. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2711 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/04/2005 10:49 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by madda:
The full round action for casting a metamagic spell (by sorcerer or bard, and spntaneosly cure by cleric) is different than the usuall full round spell.
Clerics need to use a full round action to spontaneously cast a cure spell? Could someone kindly point me to where this is referenced, I've never heard that before.If it is a rule it should also apply to Druids spontaneously casting Summon Natures Ally. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 07/04/2005 1:11 PM |
| | The cleric needs to take a full round action to cast a spontaneous spell that is affected by a metamagic feat just like a bard or sorcerer. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2711 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/04/2005 1:30 PM |
| Okey Dokey. I misread the post by madda. Thanks for the clarification.
Edit: I find it odd that Druids can spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally with a Metamagic feat as a standard action. I think I may house rule it to a full round action. Druids are good enough without that advantage. | |
In the constellation of
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Lab Monkey
Commander
4136 Posts
| | 07/06/2005 11:06 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by dariustad
Which energy type you choose really depends on what version of the feat you use.
In 3.0, Sonic was a valid energy type.
In 3.5, Sonic is an illegal choice. It is now limited to: fire, cold, acid, electricity. My usual recommendation is acid or electricity, depending on what your DM loves to throw at you. There are too many fire immune/resistant things, and most undead and another slew of monsters are immune to cold.
Wow, I didn't realize this rule update. I always felt that Sonic was a chessy (albeit good) option so I house ruled away. Turns out the designers actually did it for me. Thanks DT. | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 07/06/2005 11:37 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
Okey Dokey. I misread the post by madda. Thanks for the clarification.
Edit: I find it odd that Druids can spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally with a Metamagic feat as a standard action. I think I may house rule it to a full round action. Druids are good enough without that advantage.
Other than Quicken Spell (which would be dumb to bump up to a full round action) what metamagic would you apply to a summon spell that would be worthwhile at all? | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Captain Harlock
Sergeant
450 Posts
| | 07/06/2005 5:52 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fry
quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
Okey Dokey. I misread the post by madda. Thanks for the clarification.
Edit: I find it odd that Druids can spontaneously cast Summon Natures Ally with a Metamagic feat as a standard action. I think I may house rule it to a full round action. Druids are good enough without that advantage.
Other than Quicken Spell (which would be dumb to bump up to a full round action) what metamagic would you apply to a summon spell that would be worthwhile at all?
Well, the one that comes off the top of my head that I would use would be Augmented Summoning. Gives the creature +4 to stregnth and constitution.
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 07/06/2005 9:12 PM |
| | Augment Summon is a passive feat, you have it, it always applies. One of the best Metas to apply to Summon Spells is Rapid Spell, +1 spell level and makes it a standard action to cast a full round spell. One of the guys I play Living Greyhawk with uses Rapid Summon Swarms as his "proactive counterspell", to horrendous effect. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2711 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/07/2005 7:44 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fry:
Other than Quicken Spell (which would be dumb to bump up to a full round action) what metamagic would you apply to a summon spell that would be worthwhile at all?
I was thinking Extend, very useful for Summons. | |
In the constellation of
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
| | 07/07/2005 8:41 AM |
| | Empower is also suprisingly potent for summons as well. Empowered d3s are mediocre (1-4), but empowered d4+1 is fantastic (3-7). | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 07/07/2005 9:16 AM |
| I think the fact that the "spontaneous casting and metamagic feats" section on page 88 of the PHB doesn't mention druids and SNA is an oversight. For example, the "special" section of the Quicken Spell feat mentions that it can't be applied to cleric or druid spells cast spontaneously "since applying a metamagic feat to a spontaneously cast spell automatically increases the casting time to a full-round action."
Rapid on a summon as a "proactive counterspell" is pretty darn funny, although since you probably want 1d4+1 creatures and you're bumping the spell slot up by one, they may have trouble hitting the opposing caster. In my experience, Extend on a summon would not be very helpful, except at very low levels. Turning a two round summon into a four round summon would be useful, but turning a ten round summon into a twenty round summon would probably not lead to the summons sticking around for an extra combat encounter. Your mileage may vary.
You can't Quicken spontaneous spells; I assume you can't Rapid them, either? | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 07/07/2005 9:24 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Testament
Empower is also surprisingly potent for summons as well. Empowered d3s are mediocre (1-4), but empowered d4+1 is fantastic (3-7).
Okay, that's just bad math. Empower costs you a spell slot two levels higher...instead of 3-7 level X monsters, you could have had 2-5 level X+2 monsters, or one level X+4 monster. I'm pretty sure I'd rather have (as an example) 2-5 celestial lions than 3-7 celestial riding dogs. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2711 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 07/07/2005 10:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Fry:
Extend on a summon would not be very helpful, except at very low levels. Turning a two round summon into a four round summon would be useful, but turning a ten round summon into a twenty round summon would probably not lead to the summons sticking around for an extra combat encounter. Your mileage may vary.
That's true for combat uses of the spell. SNA has many uses outside of combat that Extend is useful for. | |
In the constellation of
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Testament
Underboss
1397 Posts
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DDM Australian Champion 2005
psistef
Underboss
1572 Posts
| | 07/08/2005 1:07 AM |
| | Wasn't the druid's spontaneous SNA a 3.5 addition? That would lead me to believe its omission from that block of text was just an oversight. | |
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