The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
    
 | | 10/21/2005 12:00 AM |
| | recovered topic 10161 | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 12:00 AM |
| | I allow it when I DM, but my only problem with alot of people who play CN are that they take it as an excuse to be a lunatic without any rationality whatsoever. A guy I use to play with for instance did a heal check on my bard to stop me from bleeding out and then put his cloak over my face and smothered me to death. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
vesivus
Sergeant
487 Posts
Edmonton, AB, Canada
| | 10/21/2005 12:01 AM |
| The only problem I have with CN, from a DMs perspective, is that it sure makes it hard to run an adventure sometimes. Just when you thought you'd plan out the character's course of steps and accounted for the most logical choices, the CN will throw a wrench in and go against the party for some (usually logical-from-that-character's point-of-view) reason.
It's hard to have a "team" mentality with a CN character in the midst. It doesn present challenges with ongoing campaigns...
John | |
Vesivus - The Natural 20 of Game Stores - Miniatures Sales (Singles/Boosters/Cases), WARMACHINE, RPG Supplies, Dice
http://www.vesivus.com | order@vesivus.com | eBay Gold Powerseller
| |
|
Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 12:08 AM |
| Chaotic Neutral is one of the worst alignments because while chaotic evil is predictable, you can always count on them to be evil, Chaotic Neutral is probably the alignment of most spree killers and most serial killers. They appear perfectly normal some of the time and then can kill anyone with out any reason. It is a hard alignment to go with a group.
| |
"Are you not entertained?" 
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
| |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 12:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I allow it when I DM, but my only problem with alot of people who play CN are that they take it as an excuse to be a lunatic without any rationality whatsoever. A guy I use to play with for instance did a heal check on my bard to stop me from bleeding out and then put his cloak over my face and smothered me to death.
This wasn't the whole story, part of it was a revenge thing against Asoph killing his character previously... Plus it was funny.
The guy he is referring to used to play the most bizzare character and they all seemed CN no mater what alignment they were. He built a CN thief around the trip feats and wanted to trip everything he fought to get the prone bonuses. I was DMing when a Xorn attacked and as everybody is fighting the Xorn and the cultist that summoned it he spent round after round trying to trip it to the point the game stopped as we tryed to prove it was impossible for him to trip a Xorn but he wouldn't be dissuaded he insisted the rules backed him up that he could trip anything if he got the right rolls. To this day his mantra is " I can trip anything but a Xorn". | | | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 12:45 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by vesivus
The only problem I have with CN, from a DMs perspective, is that it sure makes it hard to run an adventure sometimes. Just when you thought you'd plan out the character's course of steps and accounted for the most logical choices, the CN will throw a wrench in and go against the party for some (usually logical-from-that-character's point-of-view) reason.
It's hard to have a "team" mentality with a CN character in the midst. It doesn present challenges with ongoing campaigns...
John
I agree that is why in my games I have learned to DM on the fly and improvise. One of my regular players was the most CN player ever so you can never really predict what he is going to do except he sure to derail your plot(see above post as to who I am talking about).
He's a nice guy he just like to think outside the box and try weird plans to see if they work, they almost never do but that doesn't stop him. | | | |
|
The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by maijstral
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I allow it when I DM, but my only problem with alot of people who play CN are that they take it as an excuse to be a lunatic without any rationality whatsoever. A guy I use to play with for instance did a heal check on my bard to stop me from bleeding out and then put his cloak over my face and smothered me to death.
This wasn't the whole story, part of it was a revenge thing against Asoph killing his character previously... Plus it was funny.
The guy he is referring to used to play the most bizzare character and they all seemed CN no mater what alignment they were. He built a CN thief around the trip feats and wanted to trip everything he fought to get the prone bonuses. I was DMing when a Xorn attacked and as everybody is fighting the Xorn and the cultist that summoned it he spent round after round trying to trip it to the point the game stopped as we tryed to prove it was impossible for him to trip a Xorn but he wouldn't be dissuaded he insisted the rules backed him up that he could trip anything if he got the right rolls. To this day his mantra is " I can trip anything but a Xorn".
Nope I never killed his char, he was just being a punk :) | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:29 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
quote:
Originally posted by maijstral
quote:
Originally posted by AesophDarkfable
I allow it when I DM, but my only problem with alot of people who play CN are that they take it as an excuse to be a lunatic without any rationality whatsoever. A guy I use to play with for instance did a heal check on my bard to stop me from bleeding out and then put his cloak over my face and smothered me to death.
This wasn't the whole story, part of it was a revenge thing against Asoph killing his character previously... Plus it was funny.
The guy he is referring to used to play the most bizzare character and they all seemed CN no mater what alignment they were. He built a CN thief around the trip feats and wanted to trip everything he fought to get the prone bonuses. I was DMing when a Xorn attacked and as everybody is fighting the Xorn and the cultist that summoned it he spent round after round trying to trip it to the point the game stopped as we tryed to prove it was impossible for him to trip a Xorn but he wouldn't be dissuaded he insisted the rules backed him up that he could trip anything if he got the right rolls. To this day his mantra is " I can trip anything but a Xorn".
Nope I never killed his char, he was just being a punk :)
My bad[B)] I have been suitably spanked by aesophdarkfable and am justly chastized[:(]
But it was still funny and I still think you instigated something first. | | | |
|
Gristlemane
Sergeant
623 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:42 AM |
| There are two problems with it.
1) Some players equate CN with insanity. Obviously, insane people don't work out well in group settings. Unfortunately, these people give CN a bad rap: CN isn't about insanity. It's about personal freedom. For a modern group of chaotic neutral people, I think the Libertarians are a good example.
2) Some DM's enjoy forcing characters to play their alignment's stereotype. Chaotic evil NPC's are baby killers. Lawful good NPC's are holier than thou zealots. Chaotic neutral characters are hard to "pin down" because they can be kind and cruel, and are capable of both great good and great evil.
I know you didn't want any comments on the worth of the alignment system. But 99% of the problems I have with the alignment system are with how people misuse it. | |
It's deja vu all over again. | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 2:48 AM |
| Daffy Duck.
Daffy Duck is the problem with Chaotic Neutral. Seriously. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he's bad--but he's always in it for himself (usually only himself). And he's usually a loon about it. It's ingrained into our collective psyche.
Unfortunately, CN has long been the realm of the "If I'm this alignment, I can do whatever the **** I want to!! I'm not good, so I can kill indiscriminately and I'm not Evil, so I don't have to go around eating babies (and won't show up under a Detect Evil spell)..." And too many people have played that to the hilt. I've gamed with a couple of them.
Even though I've run a couple CN characters, they were never certifiable lunatics. They just weren't interested in the same things as the other characters (even the other CNs) and were more than willing to play "fast and loose" with the rules in any encounter. But they also had their own sense of honor, and probably would not have carried out the threats of torture. Although Draug (innocently minding his own business) did Call Lightning on a town guard once.
But there are many players who feel that CN is actually "Chaotic Insane"--this is where the old school Daffy really shines. They are also the type who would run a Paladin as "Lawful Stupid"--even though they would never play a Paladin because of the restrictions on what they can do (i.e. a moral code) are "boring".
IMO, anyone playing CI (Chaotic Insane) should be "downgraded" to Chaotic Evil. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
orcdoubleax
Sergeant
694 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 6:19 AM |
| The reason I gave up allowing CN is having to fight with players to keep them from being CE.
Killing an old lady because she didn't want to tell the crazy looking barbarian how to get to the general store seams a little more CE then CN to me.
It just got to be to big a fight to keep players from using it as an excuse for any action that entered thier mind. | |
Yes I am Gelatinous.
www.gelatinousdudes.com
| |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12441 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/21/2005 6:48 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by A Can of the Cave Beer
Daffy Duck.
Daffy Duck is the problem with Chaotic Neutral. Seriously. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he's bad--but he's always in it for himself (usually only himself). And he's usually a loon about it. It's ingrained into our collective psyche.
Daffy Duck is the epitome of CN. No question | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 9:00 AM |
| | My favorite character ever, my namesake Reezel, was Chaotic Neutral. He was far from evil, mostly fighting for pretty good reasosn, but unlike the rest of the party, his methods of helping out were less than pure. One of the examples that I have coming to mind right now was deep in a dungeon. The clerics were well alerted to our presence at this point and we really needed to bed down for the night. We came into a room which was obviously thier summoning room. It was laid out with candles and a large summoning circle permanently drawn onto the floor. Threw up a rope trick right there and scurried the rest of my party up in. Then, looking down, I took my longtoooth and sliced a long scar into the summoning circle, essentially breaking the circle. I then scurried up and waited. Lo and behold, knowing we were within the dungeon they arrived to summon a big baddy to take care of us. My character never laughed so hard as that demon realized he was not under the control of the priests and just ripped them to shreds. That's why it's fun to be CN. No LG character would allow such things to happen. | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
|
Scarecrow
Sergeant
788 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 9:12 AM |
| | Yeah, CN has always been somewhat hard to define, at least in terms of most players. I think the Daffy Duck reference is decent. In fantasy terms, the Kender Tasslehoff was an easy way for me to get a grasp on the alignment and what it meant. | |
I need a newcastle... | |
|
bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 9:42 AM |
| Theres a couple of alignments that a LOT of people have a huge misunderstanding of. Specifically the extreme ones: LG, CE and CN. My player of a Lawful good paladin was asking for more information on his alignment so I did a google search on it. You would be amazed at the examples that are posted as LG acts and personalities.
CN is often called Chaotic stupid or Chaotic Insane. While someone who is stupid or insane could clearly be attributed to being CN, it doesn't pigeonhole the entire alignment. Very intelligent people can be CN, as well as those that have strong beliefs and values. They just are not what society would consider "standard" beliefs. There was a good story example in 2nd edition that described a players of each alignment type in a party together. But even that sold LE and CN short and stereotyped them. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
|
B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 9:46 AM |
| For the Joss-zombies, I would say that Spike is the best example of subtle alignment shifts. He starts of as CE. Big evil-bad vamp. Killer of slayers. Eater of kittens. Later in the series he gets a chip in his head and starts fighting on the side of good. He is still an eater of kittens,and only fights demons because he's frustrated, but at least he's fighting demons. I see this as CN. Even later in the series he takes a shine to Dawn, and treats her like a kid sister. He is really protective of her, and starts displaying morals and self sacrifice. I see this as CG. When buffy finishes, Spike has redeemed himself, gotten a soul, and sacrifices himself to save the world. LG....not the squeaky clean, lawful-stupid LG, but LG none the less.
The point of all of this is that I see CN as someone who fights for the right side, but not for the best reasons, and will fight dirty if they feel it is necessary...or funny [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
| |
|
PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 10:29 AM |
| CN straddles a bridge. Most campaign center around doing things for a "side". i.e. rescuing the princes: you just did something for the good guys side. Starting revolution in a peaceful country for that nefarious kingdom next door: your acting on the evil side.
Maybe they are bad examples, but they work. Typically, most campaign end up working on that good side. Some people enjoy playing an evil campaign, or perhaps they are into "balance" (ala Greyhawk), and occasionally have to do something that crosses the line for the sake of that balance.
The CN characters typically will hurt the party because they won't invest in EITHER side. They are at constant disagreement with the party either because they want to do something that the rest of the party may think to be rash, or they WON'T go do something, because they see no motivation for themsleves.
Anyone remember the Dragon magazine adventure "Citadel by the Sea"? I ran a CN thief in a part of mostly good, but with a slightly crazed fighter/MU Elf who was ALSO CN. What a mess. All the 2 of us did was to plot how to prevent other member of the party from doing us in.... At the end of Citadel by th Sea, we captured the Orcish artificant, A spear of Elf Slaying. My friend and I took responsibility for destroying the item, but of course my friend didn't care about elvish society, so we sold it to a group of 1/2 orcs from the Bone March. As a human, I just got the money. He, as an Elf, took a pretty hefty X.P. penalty...
It didn't do the party ANY good.
having 1 CN character who is carefully played can be a good thing. Have several just leads to the party breaking up.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
|
salmander
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 10:54 AM |
| I think the PERFECT example of someone who is chatoic neutral is Clint Eastwood in The Good, The Bad, and the Ugly. He switches allegences as best serves him. He is capable of evil (leaving Tuco in the desert with his hands tied) and good (comforting a dying soldier). Plus, he does some things that don't always make sense. At the end, he puts a noose around tuco's neck and leaves him balancing on a grave marker, but he leaves him with half of the gold. After he rides away, he turns around and shoots the rope.
If that is not CN, I don't know what is.
That being said, My DM won't allow CN after the one time when we were captured and the Evil General told us to "join him or die". Being CN, of course I said I would join him. The DM found that to be too disruptive. | |
Beware the Were-Lady bug (Hybrid Form)!
Champion of Aspect of Vecna Champion of Succubus-VINDICATED
Successful trades: Gausse, Count Dooku, Aussie Jim, ehren37, jedijon,CrescentHawk,djtool,callidusx3,rtcmc
| |
|
Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 10:58 AM |
| Chaotic by definition means: Unpredictable - or Unlawful, and neutrual means that the person is capable of good and evil acts. So a chaotic neutral person really can do anything at all. Yes, a CN character can kill an old lady for not telling where the inn is. Yes they are capable of doing good acts as well. The same person might run into a burning building to save a small child. The CN person is not one that works well with a group. While not technically insane... a person who is unpredictable and capable of either evil or good would not be considered sane in our modern LAWFUL society.
Chaotic Neutral is not chaotic insane, but it is an alignment where anything can happen. It does not work well with a group. Any Chaotic alignment by definition is more of a loner than a team player. Our Chaotic Good player always works for the good of the group but rarely sticks to a plan. He would never kill another party member but at the same time he might try and circle around behind an enemy or break ranks when we form a defensive line. Choatic Good is can be hard enough for a group to work with, CN is worse.
A Lawful Evil character actually fits into a group easier than a Chaotic Neutral character.
| |
"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
| |
|
arcabious
Underboss
1130 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 11:10 AM |
|
Nope I never killed his char, he was just being a punk :)
[/quote]
My bad[B)] I have been suitably spanked by aesophdarkfable and am justly chastized[:(]
But it was still funny and I still think you instigated something first.
[/quote]
I could have swore you killed one of his characters in a previous game and when he killed your bard he grinned and said something about revenge. | |
aka: Dasher;The half Orc half reindeer Captain
reference list: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5339
Sucks to be you | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:41 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by arcabious
Nope I never killed his char, he was just being a punk :)
My bad[B)] I have been suitably spanked by aesophdarkfable and am justly chastized[:(]
But it was still funny and I still think you instigated something first.
[/quote]
I could have swore you killed one of his characters in a previous game and when he killed your bard he grinned and said something about revenge.
[/quote]
Arcabious reminded me of the game so here is Aesophdarkfable's CN character story that started the revenge cycle.
I was DMing the Temple of Elemental Evil with Aesoph,Arcabious and 3 others we had been playing for a few months the characters had reached 5th or 6th level and Mr. AesophDarkFable had a new book and wanted to play a new character and as his want was looking to suicide his old character, now I was not aware of this at the time, so the party is about to sneak into the crater surrounding the temple. They think they have found away in and Aesoph's character goes invisible with another character to scout the route ahead while the rest wait in an empty room near the entrance. He finds the main guard room with an obvious warning system, a chain hanging from the ceiling on the other side of the room from 4 gnolls playing cards. Instead of going back to get the others, or putting himself and the other party member between the gnolls and the warning chain, or even disabling the warning bell he stands in the doorway and launches a spell that has no hope of killing all the Gnolls or even any of them it just wounds 3 of them. Now hes visable in a room full of angry gnolls and the warning system. The Gnolls attack and of course send up the alarm, the rest of the party caught with there pants down(so to speak) now end up having to take on everything in this section of the crater all at once instead of room by room. It lead to an epic battle that killed 3 of the party before the other 3 escaped. It was a close battle and they might have won if the whole party had been together with some stratagy but being split into two groups and having no idea what was going to happen cost them.
Anyway Mr. CN from the above post lost his Gnome illisionist, I think his favoritye character, in a way that the body couldn't be recovered. He shouldn't have carried a grudge from one game to another or one character to another,I wasn't DM of that game, but thats one of the reasons he smothered Aesoph's character and proof that even AesohpDarkfable has been know to play CN to the detriment of the party. | | | |
|
Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:45 PM |
| | I avoid the entire question by not using alignments. | |
I am not gone. | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 2:06 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by doubtofbuddha
I avoid the entire question by not using alignments.
This is one of the things I like about the Eberron setting. Alignments are not always fixed there are shades of gray. | | | |
|
Dragon Snack
Warrior
285 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 3:47 PM |
| There are always shades of grey.
Even Evil characters can do good things. They have their reasons.
I may let a CN character do something evil once or twice, but like the Dark Side it is an easy and seductive path. My players know that too many evil acts will net you a CE tag until you redeem yourself.
I'm usually pretty tough on enforcing alignments. Maybe it's because of this I haven't had too many problems with CN characters. I have one player who LOVES playing CN and even had a game start with 3 CN characters (the biggest problem in that campaign was actually a TN Druid, not the CN characters).
Unless you are a divine spellcaster, alignments don't effect play that much anyway. | |
| |
|
Fearfrost
Sergeant
518 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 8:14 PM |
| | In most of the campains I have been in CN while a rare alignment with my group was usually played as a person who is out for his own best interest and basically had a "I could care less" attitude regarding good or evil. That being said the player never commited blatently evil acts because that would call far too much negative attention to himself and being jailed and or killed by the locals tends to restrict ones freedom. On the other hand he would have no problem passing a village being destroyed by orcs or some such because thats just how things are. BUT if he was with his group he would see the personal benefit of keeping his companions happy and help out. | |
Asystole is a stable heart rhythm | |
|
Ben Webster
Warrior
204 Posts
Brisbane, Australia
| | 10/22/2005 8:45 AM |
| I have a player with a CN Gnome Rogue in my campaign. I don't interfere too much with the players alignments, I keep track of all the time I feel they deviate and give them a heads up when they get a level to see how they have been travelling. Most stray a little bit but normally balance it out towards the end.
This player seemed to do CN pretty well. Especially during combat (which lets face it is the true test of sticking to your alignment). As the lawful types would devise a battle plan and stick with it, teaming up for flanking, aiding others, taking hits so the wizards would be okay, casting a heal on another character instead of attacking. All that kind of teamwork stuff that good and lawful types would do.
The CN guy would do his own thing oblivious to the needs of others. In fact at times he was a hinderance. Rarely does he ever co-operate or do what they told him to do in the plan. On his turn he would sometimes take no action (if doing so meant he might get whacked), he has even looted in the middle of a combat. To me I think he has been doing a great job of CN.
None of this wishy-washy "I have to help them out to keep them happy" stuff. He was the party rogue and they needed him and would put up with anything he does so long as he spots the traps and unlocks the doors.
Ultimately he became CG. Because as a member of the average adventuring party all that helping poor villagers for little reward, saving damsels, escorting merchants through bad lands, killing ancient evils, slaying marauding dragons well you can't do it all just because he want to be rich. Sooner or later you have to admit you are doing because you are good.
Ben. | |
Trade Ref's: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1347
Woo-hoo! Now I'm a Warrior. | |
|
*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 10/22/2005 11:07 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
quote:
Originally posted by A Can of the Cave Beer
Daffy Duck.
Daffy Duck is the problem with Chaotic Neutral. Seriously. Sometimes he's good, sometimes he's bad--but he's always in it for himself (usually only himself). And he's usually a loon about it. It's ingrained into our collective psyche.
Daffy Duck is the epitome of CN. No question
If Daffy is CN then Bugs Bunny is LE (He prepares well, plans out the most Machiavelian punishments and enjoys applying them) [)] [}:)]
That reminds me of SJG's Toon [:D] | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12441 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/22/2005 12:50 PM |
| I have a problem calling Bugs Bunny LE. Bugs is basically good hearted but when you piss him off, hoo boy look out!! Whereas Daffy is just mean, greedy, and spiteful.
Of course you realise, this means war. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 10/22/2005 1:38 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ghendar
I have a problem calling Bugs Bunny LE. Bugs is basically good hearted but when you piss him off, hoo boy look out!! Whereas Daffy is just mean, greedy, and spiteful.
Of course you realise, this means war. [:D]
"You’re despicable!" [:D]
I see Bugs as a character that has a set of values and whomever doesn't fall within them or crosses his path will suffer the consequences. That's great LE, makes you think it is good and noble but it really isn't. Kinda like Tilda Swinton (Gabriel) in Constantine or Christopher Walken (Gabriel, again!) in The Prophecy [:D] | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
|
The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12441 Posts
The G Spot
| | 10/22/2005 3:28 PM |
| Yeah, I see your point, but I still can't call bugs evil. I mean, does dropping a huge metal object on a construction worker's head make someone evil?
Um, don't answer that.
[)] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
|
Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 10/23/2005 2:12 AM |
| Perhaps Bugs should be LN, then? I mean, he's done some nasty stuff (sometimes with provocation, sometimes just because he's going against Elmer or Daffy, etc.), but generally he's a live and let live type of guy. That actually sounds more Chaotic to me, now that I think about it.
LE should be represented by Wile E. Coyote and maybe Marvin the Martian. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
|
*censored*
glumag
Warlord
5968 Posts
| | 10/23/2005 7:32 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by A Can of the Cave Beer
Perhaps Bugs should be LN, then? I mean, he's done some nasty stuff (sometimes with provocation, sometimes just because he's going against Elmer or Daffy, etc.), but generally he's a live and let live type of guy. That actually sounds more Chaotic to me, now that I think about it.
LE should be represented by Wile E. Coyote and maybe Marvin the Martian.
I'll stick with Bugs being LE. Marvin and Wile E. are Neutral Stupid...err...Evil [)] | |
Trades >> Completed: 49 | Bad: Ø | Pending: 0 | Trade & talk Live on IRC! SERVER: irc.psionics.net CHANNEL: #maxminis | |
|
Stabmastaarson
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 10/23/2005 8:53 AM |
| Wow...Loony Tunes characters as alignment barometers. That's why I love the maxminis boards.
I play Living Greyhawk with my best friend who has a CN Gnome Barbarian. His concept is one of Dr. Jekyll/Mr. Hyde, he's ordinarily a quite junior alchemist who (when faced with combat) drinks a potion (flavor text) and becomes a raging wildman. He's utterly self centered and is usually motivated by personal gain, but still recognizes that working within the group serves his best interest. That's CN to me.
Irrationally killing babies is CE pure and simple. CN (to my way of thinking) does not equal insanse, simply independent and self involved. That can make someone unpredicatble on the surface. | |
Better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not
My Have/Want list
Trades pending with:
Competed trades (11) ares71,pagansexy,bradu,Unearthed Arcana, Garate,Arbados dobblegog, blackthorne,aussie_jim, spikegif, Lady Bast | |
|
avrivah
Sneak
164 Posts
| | 10/23/2005 1:16 PM |
| I don't beleive that it is necessary to bar CN from a campaign. From my own experience, I often let the consequences of the individual sanction their behaivior. If a character in my campaign is going to be erratic and neglect to think every course of action through, then they have no right to bitch about consequences that they similarly didn't plan for. Often this ends with the character's death.
In my Mulmaster campaign, the PCs opened a cubic gate to the Abyss in the destroyed portion of Zhentel Keep during a time when there were quite a number of Baatezu in the city. Needless to say, the Blood War errupted in the middle of the streets. Unfortunately, only four of the six PCs who entered the Keep left alive. It is interesting to note however, that the reason the PCs were in the Keep was not to destroy the city, but to rescue a reclusive political expatriot. Thanks CN. | |
OldReferences-http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4648
NewReferences-http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12380
Completed Trades 55
Champion of The Lady of Pain
| |
|
nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/23/2005 1:47 PM |
| I've never viewed L/C axis as the difference between ordered/predictable and random/unpredictable. I've always viewed it as how one sees the individuals place within society as a whole. Sorta along the lines of does the individual serve the society? Or does the society serve the individual? The G/E axis is a bit more straight foward I think.
The worst description of alignments I can recall is one from the 2nd Ed. PH (I think). For CN it says something like a CN character is as likely to jump off a bridge as cross it. ????? WTF! That's just stupid. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
|
tomas
Sergeant
531 Posts
Spicer, MN
| | 10/24/2005 12:25 AM |
| | My brother played a CN Fighter/Mage/Thief for years. The worst experience was once when he threw a fireball into a building where my character was because, "I knew you'd make your saving throw;" and I'm cussing him out as the building blows up around me. | |
Have/Want list: http://maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=tomas
Reference thread: http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6938
Trades Completed(51):Unearthed Arcana, arcabious(x2), Noghri, phrennzy, jgsugden, BigBC, maniacal_mini_monger, cyderakk, Chaotic Good, symbiotesx2, Nixlord, dagonet(x2), Red Ranger, Zaukrie, Thatoneguy, Schooly_D, arbados(x2), scottbis, Thailfi(x2), Chiaroscuro, dumdragon, jedijon, DrX, ckissee, time bandit, the1ring, scallamander, sttmxn, Lance H, qstor, Thor, glumag, Urban Druid, xuthal, jaidenshea, Ghendar, Nurvel, raymo13, ickthegreat, Primarch, WakeXX, kyrin, Crisisman,desiderata, smetzger, Vrecknidj, Frostrune
Trades Pending():
BAD TRADES(3):Satsujin Kingyo, Wraith, Yo Hon
Email: thompmar@hotmail.com | |
|
devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 10/24/2005 2:59 PM |
| It's all in the interpretation and execution. If some of the conversation here is any pulse as to how varied folks look at playing up the allignment.
Myself, I've had several instances were CN worked well in a game (maybe not always to plan but certainly nothing game shattering). Best example I can think of is a group of Bounty Hunters I ran many moons ago. The whole group was an admixture of neutral, chaotic themes. Two of the five players had CN and both played 'em a bit differently.
The first was a something of a ranger/rogue type. Rough and tumble, hated ignorant city folks, but had a crude set of personal values that he stuck to and refused to bend on. Probably the better of the two.
The second was a psion type (2nd ed) who had a penchent for tapping in to peoples thoughts a bit too much. His favorite excuse/plea was "It's a gift, I can't just turn it off." Certainly ran the gambit of good/evil several occasions but was smart enough then to jump over the line. Nudging, walking on it, poking it much to the DM's (my ire) but I could breath deep and move on. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
|
Chris Orlando
Warrior
187 Posts
| | 10/26/2005 12:12 AM |
| | I have had a bad personal experience play a CN character, due to the fact that the DM decided to be jerk and punish me for my roleplaying. What happend was we saved this town from orc attacks, and this blacksmith hated us no matter what we did right. After we told him we saved his town, he spit at my feet, so i decided to spit in his face. The party managed to pull me off from attacking him, well anways later on this Goody too shoes NPC who happend to be a gunslinger came to tell us out our next mission. While he was telling us about our next mission, the blacksmith was away, so i decided to take a leak on his "precious Anvil". Once that happened the gunslinger shot and killed my character. I felt i was playing pritty CN. I just think some DM's have trouble dealing with it. | |
Zardnaar, One dork to rule them all. | |
|
Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 1:51 AM |
| I am going to have to quote Count Douku from another thread:
quote:
The Outer planes each represent an alignment. Limbo is Chaotic Neutral.
Its not an evil place or a good place...but its pure Chaos.
Its a roiling soup of....stuff..that constantly changes.
There is no solid ground. Its fire, air, earth and water in every direction. Globs of water as large as lakes that float through the air one second could be a giant chunk of eath the size of a continent tumbling through a sea of fire the next.
Demons and Hades are the Epitome of Chaotic Evil and
Limbo is the plane of Chotic Neutral... it is pure Chaos wher very little is able to live without special abilities. The thread this is from is about Limbo. Choatic Neutral can be fun, but it is a hard alignment to work in group dynamics.
| |
"Are you not entertained?"
Champion of the Common Bar Wench
| |
|
Blue Dragon
Skirmisher
1 Posts
| | 10/29/2005 12:02 AM |
| A chaotic neutral story, well there was once this druid in our group I don't know if he was true neutral or chaotic neutral, but he was stupid.
First after we defeted a group of bandits, he started to question one and beacause the guy wouldn't talk he attempted to cut off the guys arm, next when we arive at the bandits hideout, where having a corridior fight with some more of them, and he decides to use his sling while he stands behind us. He suceeded in hitting a fellow party member in the head at least four times before he stopped. Last we go down a secret stair case that went deeper into the complex and we come across a group of goblins. When it gets to his turn and the DM askes him what he's going to do, he says,
"Nothing, goblins are apart of nature and it would be wrong for me to kill them."
He was kicked out of the group soon after. | |
Tay | |
|