Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
    
New York
 | | 10/21/2005 12:18 PM |
| | recovered topic 10182 | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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Count Dooku
Commander
4637 Posts
New York
| | 10/21/2005 12:18 PM |
| If he touches the clay to a door frame in a dungeon, he can shape the portal to shut or pinch closed.
He cannot dispell it however...he would need to cast the spell again and reshape the door.
How is he dropping ceilings or causing stone blades to lash out?
He would need to touch the celing with the clay to shape it....and I would rule that you cannot shape stone to move fast enough to lash out and harm others...If you could there would be rules for crushing walls and spikes of stone growing out of the floor causing damage in the spell description.
Technicly the stone is shapped as you shape the clay..which isnt very fast.
Stone Shape is not an offensive spell in this way. | |
Champion of the Skulk
Vindicated Champion of the Twig Blight | |
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:39 PM |
| I've actually been talking about this spell with my DM. I'm playing an earth priest who absolutely loves this spell.
Personally, I think that you should be able to shape the "interconnected" stone. If you say that the spell doesn't effect stone in that way it makes it nearly useless in a man made structure, as you will be trying to make changes brick by brick.
I do agree that stone blades and dropping ceilings are a bit much. Personally I would rule that the stone has the consistancy of clay until it finishes it's effect, and thus not able to harm someone.
I will note that it makes for great cages though [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:57 PM |
| What are you creating when you drop a section of ceiling? I don't see how stone shape could do that. You manipulate the clay to the shape you want how do you manipulate the clay into the ceiling dropping?
Also if you want him to stop have an NPC villian use the spell against him. I have found this is the best arguement to stopping what you think is the abuse of the spirt,if not the letter, of the rules. This usually takes care of the problem without huge amounts of argueing and frantic seaching through books to prove your point of view.
Its a fantastic,great loophole of a thing when the PC's do it but its unfair possibly cheating when the NPCs do it. | | | |
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 1:58 PM |
| As B's DM, I have to chime in. The spell states that the clay must be touched to the stone being shaped so that leaves out ceilings unless the character has a means of getting there. Once there, however, theoretically,they could cause the ceiling to fall by reshaping the stone so that a large mass is supported by insuficient strength and falls (helped perhaps by a blow or two). The blades thing is right out, however, as the spell does not allow for this. Ixnay on the moving parts bit.
I have allowed B's cleric to shape stone cages with it and containing walls to hedge out enemy forces (until they break or sunder the wall somehow at least). This is in keeping with the power of a 3rd level spell. | |
I am a leaf on the wind...Urrk!!--Wash, "Serenity" | |
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B
Underboss
1189 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 2:07 PM |
| | Ummm....yeah......I've been meaning to talk to you about this spell. I GROSSLY underestimated the volume of material that I can effect. I was thinking in square feet, and not cubic feet. We need to talk. [:D] | |
Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.--Dylan Thomas
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Grim
Sergeant
482 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 3:35 PM |
| | Hmmmm.....wow. Something horribly wrong there. Getting a 17 cubic foot block of stone to fall on someone would surpass fireball damage for sure (by a factor of I don't want to think about it.) and the spells versatility outstrips most other third level spells. Anyone want to hazard a guess what this block might weigh? The damage it might cause? Ouch. We have to talk B. lol. | |
I am a leaf on the wind...Urrk!!--Wash, "Serenity" | |
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
| | 10/21/2005 3:47 PM |
| | Aren't there a few of the shaping spells that specify that you must make stable structures? Just make stone shape one of them. | |
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Sean-Khan
Commander
2723 Posts
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lurch_E_bean
Underboss
1058 Posts
| | 10/25/2005 6:44 PM |
| | I've played in a group that absolutely loved this spell while we were going through the City of the Spider Queen. We seemed to use it for everything. We sealed up a hallway, leaving some holes big enough to shoot a crossbow through, but not let the Bebiliths get through while we took them down (they actually should've busted through that, but the DM made some really poor strength checks with the Bebiliths. We made a big tube to enclose a Drow Wizard and one of his henchmen, and the only way they could get out was to fireball themselves and break the stone. Also a good way to avoid trapped doors with really nasty effects. My personal favorite, though, was using the spell to deface a statue of Lolth. It might have been a bit beyond the power of the spell, but it did fit the restriction of "crude shapes" given in the PHB... [:D] | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/25/2005 6:57 PM |
| Stone shape is an awesome spell that is so versitile that it can be used in almost any situation... except with worked stone and it is very limited in offense. If you want to drop a ceiling on someone... rock to mud is so much better. We had a cleric and a dwarven stone mason who spent time working together making stone vaults for wealthy inhabitants in the town, they even worked with the best lock smith in the town for the full package.
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smilinIrish
Sergeant
913 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 12:47 AM |
| | Don't have my PHB with me, but I always carried around a spell to create stone walls, and always had a stone shape spell to open the wall. It was great for blocking doors or caves to rest, then opening back up with a stone shape spell. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 10/27/2005 8:15 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by salmander:
Also once it is formed and he decides he doesn't want it anymore, he just says that he dispells the effect.
The only spells that can be dismissed have a (D) at the end of the duration line. As was said earlier Stone Shape cannot be dismissed by the caster.
Edit: Changed dispelled to dismissed. | |
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notserious
Sneak
117 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 2:03 PM |
| to B and Grim:
You may already be ahead of me here, but I've seen others make this mistake - 17 cubic ft is not as significant as a 17ft cube. 17 cubic feet is a little less than 3'x3'x2' (which is 18 cubic feet) - I certainly wouldn't want that falling on me, but it isn't quite as monumental as a 17 foot cube, in fact it is probably smaller and moving slower than a giant's boulder. Also, the range is touch, and while you may say the stone you are touching is connected to over there, I think as a DM it would be fair to rule that you have to include the volume of rock between you and the area you are affecting as a part of you volume of effect. With that in mind, to use stone shape to drop a chunk of rock that does less damage than a giant's boulder, you have to be able to reach the ceiling and get mighty close to your opponent.
my 2 cp
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 10/27/2005 11:15 PM |
| | I have seen some pretty creative uses with Stone Spell. One group I was in had an entire cave system for a lair after we kicked the lizardfolk from there. We found places to put our treasure then closed it up with Stone Shape. Then if we had burglars, invaders, or tax men (Man did that guy regret coming in and trying to get anything from us), they would never find it there. It was simple, but very effective. | |
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Malin Lug
Sergeant
742 Posts
| | 10/28/2005 12:19 PM |
| Yeah... we used stone shape liberally when redoing a bad guy converted complex. Sealed some passages, along with the dwarven stone mason, made some very good, very heavy stone doors. We also did used stone shape to seal off our Vault. We smoothed off passages and converted an air hole into an exhaust system for our forge. All with the liberal use of stone shape. In the middle of an adventure, our cleric usually uses stone shape in order to give us a safe place to rest for the night, closing off a passage or making a choke point where one or two people could hold off an army. Our cleric also used it to deface a collosal statue of an evil god... she used stone shap to remove the head. While technically the head could have rolled onto someone, she had no real control over where it went.
The only way I have seen to use stone shape to drop a section of ceiling on someone would be to use stone shape to take out supporting pillars... but once again, you have no control over when it falls or where, if it even does.
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