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Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6808 Posts
    
West Valley City, Utah
 | | 10/31/2005 4:29 PM |
| | recovered topic 10687 | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6808 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 10/31/2005 4:29 PM |
| | I don't quite see what you are saying is the way you did things and the spark of the idea of how you want to try things differently yet. What, generally speaking, is the solution you are seeing? (I am not necessarily asking for a whole bunch of examples to answer this question. I just want to understand better what you are saying.) | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 4:43 PM |
| Yeah, I guess I was sort of vague.
Let me take the pack of vrocks there. They have a ton of summoning abilities/spells/powers to keep track of. This is what type of think that was throwing me off. Now say I take and decide to throw in one Vrock, give it a few levels, so it's the only complicated monster, then went ahead and used a bunch of fire giants to assist it. (I don't know if this is equivalent CR right now, just throwing it out there.) Generic giants are incredibly easy to run in combat. They hit things, and that's about it. Then instead of having to keep track of all the possibilities of my vrocks, I have one to keep track of and the giants are easy from that point, making the combat that much smoother to run. | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6808 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 10/31/2005 4:49 PM |
| | That makes more sense now. I do think that mixing creatures like that does simplify what the DM needs to track and make the encounter more interesting for the players at the same time. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 10/31/2005 6:17 PM |
| It's definitely something to think about. Many choices for the DM make for a slow combat.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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kestrel.ca
Underboss
1684 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 6:44 PM |
| | Because I hate slow encounters due to poor DM'ing (mine included) I typically create a four round tactical plan -- ideal actions for the monsters based on predicted PC actions. Since this typically involves 1 or 2 defensive buff followed by major offensive abilities it's also easy to skip to the next round or action if one doesn't make sense in actual context. That's one of the ways I've found to speed up my game -- now if only my players would plan ahead [)]. | |
Completed Trades/Transactions: 94 || Bad Trades: 3 (Chaotic Good x2, MackeyV) | |
| Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
Australia
| | 10/31/2005 9:10 PM |
| reezel - I look forward to seeing the encounters you design.
Cheers! | |
Merric Blackman
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arbados
Underboss
1445 Posts
New York, USA
| | 10/31/2005 10:16 PM |
| In designing an interesting battle it is a good idea to first flesh out the enemy with a background story. I am not saying for every creature they need a story, but even the low level minions should be involved and related to the larger evil. The 1st level clerics are part of the cult. The kobold rogues are hired hands for the guild master. This way when the characters start to find out the story line the previous encounters make more sense.
Also, when preparing a fight scene it is a good idea to put in some henchmen which can be taken out more easily to keep the groups morale up. When you throw in too many tough individuals the group might start to become disheartened. Let them take out some quickly and then when they finally go toe to toe with the BBEG it makes it all that much better. | |
Give me more MIND FLAYERS! | |
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Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 10/31/2005 10:25 PM |
| | The article also raises the interesting point of one ginormous dragon being a better encounter than a swarm of small dragons. The 1d4 recharge time is easy to track for one big dragon; for a whole swarm of little ones, not so much. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 8:02 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by arbados
In designing an interesting battle it is a good idea to first flesh out the enemy with a background story. I am not saying for every creature they need a story, but even the low level minions should be involved and related to the larger evil. The 1st level clerics are part of the cult. The kobold rogues are hired hands for the guild master. This way when the characters start to find out the story line the previous encounters make more sense.
Also, when preparing a fight scene it is a good idea to put in some henchmen which can be taken out more easily to keep the groups morale up. When you throw in too many tough individuals the group might start to become disheartened. Let them take out some quickly and then when they finally go toe to toe with the BBEG it makes it all that much better.
I can't agree more. Funny you mention Kobolds too since the first one I was working on last night was a Kobold based encounter. I do love the little guys. | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 11/01/2005 4:51 PM |
| In the past when I did DM, I would create a simple random choice table for these complicated monsters - always considering that combat is usually split decision timing in most combatants cases I really didn't worry if the chosen option didn't completely fit (How many times has hindsight told you in life you made the wrong choice?). If one of the options seemed so much more likely then I just chose it, heck I am the DM aren't I?
The random choices kept me from dictating the game and gave me some interesting and fun scenarios as DM. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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tomas
Sergeant
531 Posts
Spicer, MN
| | 11/02/2005 12:22 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by arbados
In designing an interesting battle it is a good idea to first flesh out the enemy with a background story. I am not saying for every creature they need a story, but even the low level minions should be involved and related to the larger evil. The 1st level clerics are part of the cult. The kobold rogues are hired hands for the guild master. This way when the characters start to find out the story line the previous encounters make more sense.
Also, when preparing a fight scene it is a good idea to put in some henchmen which can be taken out more easily to keep the groups morale up. When you throw in too many tough individuals the group might start to become disheartened. Let them take out some quickly and then when they finally go toe to toe with the BBEG it makes it all that much better.
I agree with arbados as well.
You also might try the hit and run tactic with low level minions. They can harrass the party awhile, report back to the boss and come back again with a little higher level sub-commander, etc. I played a dungeon that was full of kobolds with poison arrows (can't remember the name, maybe you guys do) that were guarding a huge dragon. Well, the little (*&%^$#$** things just went bonkers on my party, so that by the time we made it through all the traps and the kobolds on ledges with poison arrows, my party was basically already toast. Even the little things can be dangerous with a few Greek fire or poison arrows or web spells thrown in. It only takes a 3 level kobold sorceror to cast web and the rest of the fighters can come and chew up the party. | |
Have/Want list: http://maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=tomas
Reference thread: http://maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=6938
Trades Completed(51):Unearthed Arcana, arcabious(x2), Noghri, phrennzy, jgsugden, BigBC, maniacal_mini_monger, cyderakk, Chaotic Good, symbiotesx2, Nixlord, dagonet(x2), Red Ranger, Zaukrie, Thatoneguy, Schooly_D, arbados(x2), scottbis, Thailfi(x2), Chiaroscuro, dumdragon, jedijon, DrX, ckissee, time bandit, the1ring, scallamander, sttmxn, Lance H, qstor, Thor, glumag, Urban Druid, xuthal, jaidenshea, Ghendar, Nurvel, raymo13, ickthegreat, Primarch, WakeXX, kyrin, Crisisman,desiderata, smetzger, Vrecknidj, Frostrune
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Email: thompmar@hotmail.com | |
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reezel
Sergeant
555 Posts
| | 11/02/2005 8:33 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by tomas
I played a dungeon that was full of kobolds with poison arrows (can't remember the name, maybe you guys do) that were guarding a huge dragon.
Any chance you're talking about Dragon Mountain? That's one of my favorite adventures. | |
Champion of the Beholder and Beholderkin
The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. | |
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salmander
Sneak
140 Posts
| | 11/02/2005 10:14 AM |
| As a DM, I find that I often use creatures that are fairly easy to run, but put them in situations with strategic advantages. One example is a trap that dropped the party into a cooridor with Flinds on the other side of several arrow slits. All the Flinds had to do was keep firing arrows until the party figured out how to reach them and then use melee weapons.
The monsters were easy to run, but it was an interesting and challenging encounter for the players, because of the situation. | |
Beware the Were-Lady bug (Hybrid Form)!
Champion of Aspect of Vecna Champion of Succubus-VINDICATED
Successful trades: Gausse, Count Dooku, Aussie Jim, ehren37, jedijon,CrescentHawk,djtool,callidusx3,rtcmc
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