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Thoth, Gatherer of Knowledge
MerricB
Underboss
2353 Posts
    
Australia
 | | 02/13/2006 10:32 PM |
| http://www.3rdedition.org/merricb/musings/index.htm
Enjoy! | |
Merric Blackman
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maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 10:56 PM |
| I remember Keep on the Borderland, it was the first adventure I ever played and I have run 3 seperate groups through it to introduce them to D&D.
So I was there for the original basic game and now I have the newer one. I agree the first was more like the typical roleplaying adventure and the second is closer to a boardgame. But in both cases they were designed to teach beginning players the game so both do the job they are intended for. Is one better than the other? In my opinion the original Basic Game is better to teach RPG but the new Basic game is trying, I believe, to give you a basic understanding of both RPG and skimish so its trying to do a double duty and splits the difference. | | | |
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wildmage
Sneak
123 Posts
| | 02/13/2006 11:35 PM |
| | My group began by playing through the Sunless Citadel (with a more experienced player/DM running the campaign). Overall we went through it pretty slowly so it took around 6-7 sessions to complete, but we had a lot of fun with it and for the most part we did pretty well developing our characters (role-playing wise) while going up 1-2 levels and fighting our way to the finish (the final encounter is a bit brutal). There's good interaction between various powergroups- kobolds, goblins, and evil NPCs. It even has a dragon. I suppose running an adventure like that requires a fair amount on the DM's side, but at the same time I think it's pretty well written, so the new DM can rely on thoroughly reading and rereading the module before each session. | |
Champion of the Bone Naga
(There's just so much roleplaying to be done with a large skeletal snake!) | |
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Most Edumacated
zenthrus
Warlord
5100 Posts
SLC, UT
| | 02/14/2006 1:44 AM |
| Nice comparison. I like the 3.5e Basic Game. Although it's somewhat limited in scope it is very easy to teach a new player the basics in an hour or so and even gives you minis and tiles to map out battles. While 3.5e has its share of glitches overall WotC is doing a decent enough job at keeping the game alive and kicking. I'm a little concerned that the 3.5e Basic Game Mark 2 is still using tiles (as opposed to maps) but I'm a map fan.
This article does bring back memories. Keep on the Borderlands was a fun adventure and significantly less irksome than Castle Greyhawk. Yeesh! Hopefully after War Drums I'll even have enough Hill Giants for Against the Giants. Yay! [:D] | |
Knight Warlord a.k.a. Commander (#32) in only 6 months. Where's my pie?
Champion of Dwarven Thunderlashers
Knight of the Large Dire Chicken
Have/Want List
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 02/14/2006 8:24 AM |
| | To me the most important thing about the Basic game is that it gives the DM a good idea of what his role is. For me this was the most difficult aspect of the game to learn. I started in Junior High and we had no one who was experienced to teach us, so it was trial and error for a while. I actually failed my first attempt at DMing because I thiught the party was expected to go through the encounters sequentially. I coildn't figure out how they were supposed to go into the water and fight the giant sharks in the third encounter in The Isle of Dread. I gave up after that for a while. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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Custom Title
WakeXX
Warlord
10152 Posts
Edinboro PA
| | 02/14/2006 8:42 AM |
| | Nice article Merric[:D] | | | |
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striderlotr
Commander
3370 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 9:16 AM |
| | Just speculation, but in the pictures from Toy Fair, was that a new D&D Basic Box with a LArge BLue dragon on the cover??? | |
Sean Banks
Champion of Elementals
Official Organizer
Gen Con 05 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 06 maxminis Event | Gen Con 06 maxminis Event | Winterfantasy 07 Community Event | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 02/14/2006 9:26 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by striderlotr
Just speculation, but in the pictures from Toy Fair, was that a new D&D Basic Box with a LArge BLue dragon on the cover???
Yes it seems that's the 'big guy' for the new Basic Set. This thread has more info.
http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15113
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In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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Kepler
Sneak
60 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 12:39 PM |
| | Hmm . . . I never knew that the Basic D&D game was created to teach the AD&D game. I always thought that the Basic Game was the original D&D then it was enhanced by creating AD&D. | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 02/14/2006 1:04 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Kepler
Hmm . . . I never knew that the Basic D&D game was created to teach the AD&D game. I always thought that the Basic Game was the original D&D then it was enhanced by creating AD&D.
Hi Kepler, welcome to the boards. Here is more than you'll ever need to know about the basis game.
http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/Basic.html
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In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 1:28 PM |
| Lets face it: Give ANY edition of D&D to 5 10 year olds who have never seen/played D&D, and tell them to go play, and see what happens...
D&D is not easily learned by reading the rules.
I tried to play D&D for a few months after I saw my brother will all the books (4.5 years my senior...). It was the end of 5th grade, and I just had no clue.
"So, you find a barrel full of spears" "Great, I'll take them all". "Look out, and Orc is attacking you." "I throw all my spears at him!" Ok, he's dead, here's all his stuff...
Gah! How did I ever think that was fun!
I had a great opportunity though: One of my good friends' cousin was in town. He was in his twenties, and from Wisconsin. He'd actually been published in dragon! One of the first playtester for Monks, and had played at the Table with "The Man". 4 hours later, I felt like NOW, I know how to play.
The other item that worked for me was the 3 page description of play in the 1e DM's guide.
I "learned" from Molvay, so his edition (and B2) will always have a special memory for me. At least 3.5 is trying, where 2e didn't even really seem to do that.
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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nyjastul69
Commander
2712 Posts
Rhode Island
| | 02/14/2006 1:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
So, you find a barrel full of spears" "Great, I'll take them all". "Look out, and Orc is attacking you." "I throw all my spears at him!" Ok, he's dead, here's all his stuff...
ROTFL
Same thing happened to us when someone discovered there were rules for throwing flasks of oil. How many can I carry? It doesn't say, I guess as many as you want. How many can I throw in a round? I guess as many as you want. Much silliness ensued. | |
In the constellation of
Cygnus, there lurks a
mysterious, invisible
force:
Rush | |
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yack
Commander
3268 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 02/14/2006 2:03 PM |
| Hahahahaha PatE how true that was. You just gave me a flash back with that comment. I remember being around 8 or 10 and playing in my cousins basement and thats how it went for us too till we figured out ... there are more rules? [:)]
Great write up Merric once again a very interesting read. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
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Kepler
Sneak
60 Posts
| | 02/14/2006 2:50 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by nyjastul69
Hi Kepler, welcome to the boards. Here is more than you'll ever need to know about the basis game.
http://www.acaeum.com/DDIndexes/SetPages/Basic.html
Thanks for the welcome and thanks for the link. Interesting stuff. | |
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Can of the Cave Beer
Commander
2838 Posts
| | 02/15/2006 12:13 AM |
| Pat's description is eerily familiar to many of us, I think.
Still, think how much different things would have been if we'd learned all the "real" rules at one go. Most of us probably wouldn't be here to tell the tale. We'd have flat out given up. Well, I probably would have.
The future for RPGing is filled with potential that wasn't even dreamed of when many of us got our feet wet in this hobby. | |
Champion of the Werewolf Lord, Knight of Anything Duergar, and Squire of Things Gnollish
List reset with the start of previews for each new set...got Chainmail®? | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/15/2006 2:39 PM |
| quote:
Still, think how much different things would have been if we'd learned all the "real" rules at one go. Most of us probably wouldn't be here to tell the tale. We'd have flat out given up. Well, I probably would have.
Yep, like I said the best way for me to actually LEARN was to sit with a very experienced DM, and see what the game was all about.
WotC might do well to produce a significant Flash file. Did everyone see the flash based D&D add that was up on the WotC site for a while?
Imagine a flash based "example of play". Image moves behind the DM's screen where he points his finger to the boxed text that he reads, and then looks up and asks the players what they want to do.
Camera moves to Player A, who looks down on his character sheet. Several items are highlighted, and the person viewing the flash clicks on one of "Fire my bow" "Draw my sword and Charge", "use my Magic Item" type of thing. Camera swings back to DM who indicates some resolution (i.e. have him look point a finger at the charging rules, and then state "Ok, your Base Attack bonus is 4, so with the charge you'll need a 10 to hit the Orc". You'd need to include a bunch of lines for the players to speak to one another to help demonstrate the "Role" playing aspect of things.
They could give examples of skills, feats, and magic items, with the DM looking down to where these items are referenced...
Brand new players, without an experienced DM would get a TON out of that kind of an online demo...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 02/16/2006 9:11 AM |
| Thanks, Merric, an interesting comparison.
A couple of points that were mentioned: 1) that of the current Basic Set not containing enough monsters; and 2) Zenthrus prefers poster maps to the map boards.
Personally, I love poster maps and map boards:
- both formats are beautifully illustrated;
- map boards are much more durable than the posters;
- map boards can be re-arranged to represent different layouts;
- poster maps can also be used for skirmish.
One of the drawbacks, however, is that there are only a limited number of map boards currently available, so for that reason, I'm glad the new Basic Set will be providing a new assortment of map boards. Hmmm ... randomly packaged map boards could have added another interesting collectable/tradable component to the game.
Consider, however, purchasing D&D Basic Set with a Starter Set of WarDrums. Suddenly, you've increased the number of character/monster figures for the game, have four poster maps, and now you can roleplay AND skirmish. Would be a great combination for a new player.
I kind of liked the "board game" nature of the current Basic Set. I had been DMing since the Moldvay Basic Set, through 1st and 2nd Edition AD&D, but had never used miniatures before. Believe it or not, the "board game" nature of the current Basic Set helped to teach an old-school-gamer like myself how to incorporate miniatures into my games!
Pat E - had to laugh at the barrel full of spears, thanks! [:)]
I gave the current Basic Set to one of my nephews for Christmas'04. I checked back a few months later and asked how he was going? He said he loved the game, that he'd started playing with some of his school mates, one of them was DMing for them. He told me that he convinced his DM to let him keep the black dragon as a pet!
Immediately I thought "OMG, what are you doing?! That's not how you play D&D!". But then I thought, if I were 16yo, I'd probably have tried the same thing. And if they're having fun, then what's the harm?
Fast-forward to Christmas'05, I introduced another two of my nephews to the Basic Set. This time, I DMed a session for them. What do you think was the first thing one of them asked when they encountered the black dragon? You guessed it .. can I keep it as a pet?
And I know someone else related a similar story regarding the black dragon on a messageboard a while ago, so I know this isn't an isolated incident. I just hope the new Basic Set includes boxed text in bold type above the Blue Dragon's statblock "Warning: blue dragons are not house-trained, not friendly around children, and not reccommended as a pets". | |
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DarkWhite
[for trade only within Australia, no overseas trade thanks] | |
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DarkWhite
Warrior
185 Posts
| | 02/16/2006 9:34 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PatEllis15
Yep, like I said the best way for me to actually LEARN was to sit with a very experienced DM, and see what the game was all about.
Last month, I rang (yet another of) my nephew (11yo, never played D&D before in his life), and asked if he was interested in coming with me to Arcanacon (Melbourne). He said, yeah, he was interested. His mum said he could only go for one afternoon.
We signed up for an Eberron session, gave him a FastPlay character, a Shifter Barbarian, great character for a new player - not a lot of fancy extras to keep track of like spellcasters - you just roll dice and smash things! We were at a table with two experienced players. The adventure began with quite a bit of storytelling. Actually, I think we managed to avoid quite a few combat situations, but when the action came around, we told my nephew where he could move his Longtooth Barbarian figure on the map, where to look for scores on his character sheet, which dice to roll, etc. Soon, he got the hang of it, and was joining in with the rest of us.
During a break in the session, he asked:
nephew: when is the next Convention?
me: Conquest, four days over the Easter long-weekend.
nephew: Do you think I could come?
me: Sure, as long as you check with your mum, and you've done all your homework.
nephew: Do you think I could go the WHOLE four days?
And he never once asked for a pet dragon! [:)]
The best way to learn the game is still to play with experienced players. Attending a gaming convention is a great way to get this exposure. RPGA adventures are well-written, the DMs know what they're doing, and other players are usually interested, friendly and willing to help. The Basic Set is a great start, but there's nothing like experiencing first-hand a game run the way it is supposed to. | |
http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=DarkWhite
[for trade only within Australia, no overseas trade thanks] | |
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forkedmoon
Underboss
1305 Posts
| | 02/16/2006 9:56 AM |
| | What? No talk of the dice then and now? I think I still have my blue crayon for filling in the depressions to make the dice legible. | |
Champion of Cyclops
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 02/16/2006 10:59 AM |
| quote:
Immediately I thought "OMG, what are you doing?! That's not how you play D&D!". But then I thought, if I were 16yo, I'd probably have tried the same thing. And if they're having fun, then what's the harm?
Heh! They're all throwback playes! Don't your remember! I know that most times the party ran into a dragon, they immediatley did teh assessment, if we can tkae this thing on, lets try to subdue it, and bring it back to town!
Ah, the old days...
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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