| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
| | Author | Messages | |
Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
    
 | | 03/09/2006 7:24 PM |
| So, I've been running Red Hand of Doom (RHD) for my wednesday night Eberron gaming group. I've posted a couple of details in this thread, where I discuss where in Eberron I'm setting it, and described a party kill at Vraath Keep.
It's been a couple of sessions since then. A new player rejoined the group after the party kill session, bringing in a Wizard/Bard (don't ask).
In order to preserve story continuity, and since most of the fallen PCs had stabilized prior to hitting -10, I decided that Wyrmlord Koth would take the heroes prisoner. Especially since the appearance of the dragonborn paladin was a dire omen. Koth sent the manticore back to Cinder Hill, relaying the capture of his prize. Meanwhile the hobgoblin vets healed up a bit (not fully, however) and maintained a more vigilant watch.
At the outset of one session, Trel - the new wizbard - and the warforged performed a "daring" rescue. Using a well-placed ghost sound, the wizbard was able to lure the minotaur away for a few rounds, and the pair rushed in to finish off the remaining hobgoblins.
Or try to finish them off... Comical, really - the looks on their faces when a measly bugbear blasted them with a lightning bolt. They prevailed, however, making great use of cover and close quarters once the minotaur returned to the battle. After they found the prisoners, the newly reformed party of six had a total of around twelve hit points -- but they were able to walk out of the keep victorious, and under their own power.
Last night's session seemed to continue to establish a theme. There's something about either these characters, or these players, that prevents them from being entirely successful. Perhaps it was because they were once again short-handed, as one player called in sick and another called in busy, so once again only 4 PCs set forth.
The session started with much debate over the meaning and purpose of Koth's map. Eventually, the party decided to find out what might be at the Skull Gorge bridge, so they set off to the north. Another long discussion occurred at the site of the giant effigy, but the party decided to continue north. After an informative nighttime encounter with a dryad (random encouter rolled - but a non-combat encounter), the PCs went back south to talk to the forest giant, and managed to befriend him by composing an impromptu song about a long-lost forest giant hero (providing the guantlet from Vraath Keep helped, too).
Eventually, the PCs found their way to the bridge, and decided the best way to cross involved tying up the dragonborn, to present him as a prisoner. ("I'm gonna put these on you" - Luke S.) Well, this time the ruse didn't work. After a mostly one-sided battle, the party had killed the two hell hounds, but the dragon finished off the Warlock (rolled a 1 on the breath weapon save and hit -12) and flew back to its tower to wait for its breath weapon to recharge. The party retreated.
So, after raising the Warlock with the staff of life, the party decided to once again try to take on the bridge defenders. This time, they decided that the wizbard should use a potion of invisibility to sneak up onto the bridge.... and drop some caltrops. That's right. Caltrops. The invis bit worked out okay, until the dragon noticed caltrops appearing on the bridge. So he swooped down to investigate, noticed the wizbard with his blindsense, and battle was joined once again.
The wizbard ran up into the safety of one of the towers (so his AC 12 could fight off a couple of hobgoblins with swords (they're just hobgoblins, right?)) to avoid the dragon, which decided to drop down and play with the paladin, soulknife, and warlock. It was one of those combats where each player says "spread out, so he can't breath on all of us", but at the end of the round all three characters ar easily within the cone area.
But the dragon got a little overconfident. The paladin kept missing, since he needed a 15 to hit the dragon's AC, and at one point the dragon was down to just under 30 hp, but it had just melted the soulknife (another 1 on a save vs. the breath weapon dropped the PC to -14). It figured it could drop the paladin with a full attack, take the likely hits from the wizbard's magic missile (yes, he had somehow survived) and warlock's blast, then the following round either flee out of sight or back to its stash of healing potions.
It almost worked. First attack put the paladin to exactly 0 hp. Second attack was a natural 1. In my games, I run with a pseudo-fumble rule for natural 1's: each "1" rolled increments a counter; when the counter hits 4, something bad happens (no more attacks that round, and then usually dropping weapon or provoking AoO, sometimes hitting an ally); each "side" (players, DM) has its own counter. In this case, this was the 4th "1" rolled by me, so I allowed the paladin to take an AoO.
Of course, at 0 hp, taking the AoO also would drop the paladin to -1 hp. But he decided to take it, and actually hit! The paladin dropped, but the dragon took enought damage that a magic missile and eldritch blast were enough to finish it off.
The session ended with the paladin revived and the three PCs, all in single-digit hp, retreating with the mostly-melted form of their soulknife.
Next week, maybe they'll actually take the bridge! It should be a more straightforward fight. The remaining hobgoblins will have been reinforced by another hobgob squad and a hellhound - and I'll probably bring in the manticore that the party didn't encounter at Vraath Keep.
Whew. next update should be shorter. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
| 
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 03/09/2006 7:50 PM |
| Nice ... I love campaigns like that.
Ours is plagued by the binary rule. On any given night, some folks will totally rock the house and others ... not so much.
It's almost like Kiddoc (or his dice-bot) picks half the party to punish. Those folks get the full brunt of EVERYTHING. Maybe it's the encounter composition - we are neatly divided along lines like speed (fast/slow), defenses (good/suck saves, etc.) and maybe that's just it.
Still, I wonder how many sessions have ended with him deciding it's better not to TPK.
A few sessions ago we captured this tower in Sharn from some Daask clan folks. Most of the night, we did darn well. We got to the roof where the too harpies were and EVERY SINGLE ONE OF US failed the captivating song save. We threw out action points, whatever and still failed across the board. I've got to think there was a bit of great trash-heap intervention going on there so as we didn't all get destroyed.
Fact is, this group is very fun but hangs on the edge of self-destruction. We've got an odd dynamic in our group, split along some clear lines. At some point things may come to a head between the Silver Flame zealots (2 of those - LG-ish) and the rest of the group (4+ of those, mostly CN/N ish). *sigh* | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
|
Cosworth
Warrior
215 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 2:23 AM |
| Great writeup.
It actually gives a cool insight to how a DM constantly must adjust the game to keep a good pace going. Very inspiring!
Hey - and congratulate that Paladin on his bravery! | |
Sorry Maxminis - find me at Hordelings from sep. 14 2006 | |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 3:43 AM |
| | Yea I always like to see writeups like this. Its nice to read them every now and then and see how ppl do their games. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|
Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 4:16 AM |
| That's cool Shoe. I'm planning to run the Red Hand of Doom for a new campaign I'm starting after I graduate in May. Its based on the Heroes of Battle and the Red Hand should fit well as a splinter force away from the main war...
Keep the campaign progress coming...I may use your ideas to tweak my own campaign. | |
Email Offers | Trade History
Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 6:55 AM |
| Love it!!!
I too am going to run this as my next campaign in the fall. I am going to make a model of Skull Gorge and the bridge as it is going to be such a battle that I really want to impress the "epic" nature.
Shoe, keep those updates coming!! This is a really great mod and I am so looking forward to running it....[}:)] | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
yack
Commander
3268 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 03/10/2006 7:23 AM |
| | I'm reading the module as we speak that and age of the Worms as it comes out monthy. Amazing write -up sounds like your doing a great job with it. Now I can't wait till the summer too run it. Thanks for sharing and keep us in the loop!!! [:)] | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
|
taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 03/10/2006 7:59 PM |
| | It's always fun to read how the designers play. Thanks for the write-up, and please keep us in the loop! | |
Champion of the Entire Monster Manual 1!
(Click link to see current progress!)
Uncommon Painting Competition 2 Winner | |
|
Omand
Commander
3120 Posts
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
| | Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 6:51 PM |
| This week, our heroes once again (for the third time) tried to take the bridge. After resting through the night, they returned with a plan of attack.
A plan slightly more complex than the infamous "Get 'er".
The remaining hobgoblins (6 veterans and the sergeant) had been reinforced with 8 more veterans and a pair of bladebearers. Expecting attack, two archers were atop each of the four bridge towers, the bladebearers waited within one of the forward towers, and the rest were back near the tents.
The party took up positions in the trees at the edge of the cleared approach to the bridge. The warlock then started in with his eldritch blast while the shifter cleric (finally back with the party) placed a spirtual weapon. As arrows rained down on the party, the bladebearers emerged and advanced on the party, while the sergeant gathered a squad of four hobgoblins and began moving across the bridge.
The early battle went very well for the party. They dealt with the bladebearers fairly quickly, and even managed to overcome the sergeant and his cronies without suffering too many heavy blows.
The player of the recently deceased soulknife was now playing a lurk (a class from the upcoming Complete Psionic), who been sent by the Lion Guard of Brindol to investigate the Dawn Way and determine the strength of the hobgoblin forces. He had begun observing the bridge when the party attacked, and decided to join in the fight against the hobgoblins.
The dragonborn paladin and shifter cleric began moving across the bridge, advancing on the remaining hobgoblins that had taken cover behind the bridge towers. They were followed by the lurk, while the wizbard and warlock moved up to the base of the bridge to provide cover fire.
But, just when the PCs were in danger of walking away unscathed with a victory, they decided to make things interesting. Instead of staying near each other, the cleric and paladin separated a bit, allowing the 6 ground-based hobgoblins to move in around the cleric to attack the paladin who was in back (the shifted and buffed cleric had a 26 AC, so it wasn't a bad idea for him to lead). When the lurk also moved up, the hobgoblins were able to 5-foot step into positions where at one point they had all three characters flanked. Meanwhile, the wizbard moved up to the middle of the bridge, making him a target for the remaining archers, and stepping a bit too close to the melee.
Within a couple short rounds (not the Temple of Doom kind), the paladin, lurk, and wizbard were all on the ground in negative hit points. The cleric, meanwhile, failed two consecutive concentration checks to heal himself, and was all the way down to 3 hp before he finally got a cure moderate off. Eventually, the warlock was able to whittle down the remaining hobgoblins, with the cleric occasionally contributing with a sword strike.
But the PCs once again emerged victorious, and for once managed to avoid character death.
They then proceeded up to Cinder Hill, filled appropriate amounts of pants when witnessing the scale of the army, and then high-tailed it back to Drellins Ferry, blowing up the bridge along the way. They quickly convinced the town elders to evacuate (it seems they ran into town screaming that everyone was going to die), and have moved on to the next part of the adventure.
Next week, we'll see how far they get, and see if they can survive their first Spawn of Tiamat encounter. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Stabmastaarson
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 03/17/2006 7:18 PM |
| | I've enjoyed reading these. The party seems like the Keystone Kops. Not that their inept, just that bad things seem to happen to them. Like Murphy's Law is a physical constant for them. I liked the Temple of Doom pun too. Smooth. | |
Better to be hated for what you are than loved for what you're not
My Have/Want list
Trades pending with:
Competed trades (11) ares71,pagansexy,bradu,Unearthed Arcana, Garate,Arbados dobblegog, blackthorne,aussie_jim, spikegif, Lady Bast | |
|
Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 2:49 AM |
| Most of the gamers in my group are ex-military, reservists, or law enforcement. There is no way they would let that happen to them (one of the reasons I roll my dice in the open). They have an annoying habit of using items like a Use of Force doctrine, Rules of Engagement, or the Squad Leader's Handbook and would never use the "get 'em" tactic. LOL
I usually have to up the CR by 1 or 2 to make it challenging for them, but then we've played and worked together for years. | |
Email Offers | Trade History
Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
|
True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 9:01 AM |
| | Yea definetely keep going with the writeups, they are interesting reads. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
|
Ridureyu
Underboss
1622 Posts
| | 03/18/2006 11:58 PM |
| | Don't forget that writeups like this also help people decide whether or not they want to buy certain products. yay! | |
Owner of The Original Rust Monsters!
DDM: Harbinger: 76/80 Dragoneye: 60/60 Archfiends: 56/60 GoL: 72/72 Aberrations: 60/60 Deathknell: 60/60 Angelfire: 60/60 Underdark: 60/60 War Drums: 60/60 War of the Dragon Queen: 60/60 Blood War: 60/60, Unhallowed: 60/60 Night Below: 60/60 Desert of Desolation: 60/60 Dungeons of Dread: 60/60 Against the Giants: 60/60
Dreamblade: All | |
| Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7670 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 03/20/2006 12:10 PM |
| | You know, i was a little iffy on whether or not to buy this adventure, but I'm convinced now to get it for sure. Thanks Shoe! | |
Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
devasque
Sergeant
874 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 2:18 PM |
| | I picked up the adventure and it was very amusing to read the flow of things in the pages and then compare to your group and what they've done. Got to wonder if during character creation they (the players) had any forethought as to the type of campaign this adventure would turn out to be. A paladin, soulknife, warlock and wiz/bard seems a bit light on combat potential hence the TPK. Suggesting balance might be the only thing I throw out to my players before we start up the week after spring break. | |
You see! There ARE others out there just like me. What? Why are laughing? | |
|
Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 5:42 PM |
| | Keep the write ups coming. Very intresting. Thanks. | |
Champion of Halaster Blackcloak
Rage!!!!!!!!!! | |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/20/2006 6:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zeb
Most of the gamers in my group are ex-military, reservists, or law enforcement. There is no way they would let that happen to them (one of the reasons I roll my dice in the open). They have an annoying habit of using items like a Use of Force doctrine, Rules of Engagement, or the Squad Leader's Handbook and would never use the "get 'em" tactic. LOL
I usually have to up the CR by 1 or 2 to make it challenging for them, but then we've played and worked together for years.
In the past three years I have run two seperate groups. One has no military veterans playing, the other has two. I find myself bumping up the ECL for the military group by one or two. Just to keep things even and interesting. As this group often comes up with various tactics to advance on the BBEG. Boy do they hate it when the BBEG use tactics as well...[}:)]
The group that has no past military experince is the one tht I am going to run this adventure for. I am looking forward to running this campaign as the way Shoe describes the adventure is the way that I see this group taking things on as well......[:D]
Shoe, thanks for the update. Please keep them coming!!! | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
|
Skyscraper
Sergeant
659 Posts
Montreal
| | 03/22/2006 3:18 PM |
| Interesting stuff! I just bought Red Hand of Doom a few weeks ago, and now reading this gives a bit of additional insight on the adventure.
Your narrative rate is good too. I mean, you provide enough details to keep the color of the game in there, but at the same time you move forward in your storyline quickly enough that we don't get bored. I've read some campaign reviews that are so long that after one post i decide to quit.
Sky
| |
The wise man doubts often. The ignorant, sometimes. The fool, never. | |
| Hero of Skirmish
doubtofbuddha
Commander
3371 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 3:57 PM |
| | Amusingly enough the one military guy in our group is not an especially good tactician. The best tactician is the other miniature skirmish player. [:P] | |
I am not gone. | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6809 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 03/22/2006 11:27 PM |
| | Shoe, thanks for the writeups and the regular updates. I am running this adventure with my group. It's good to hear how another group reacts and the real danger that is there. It makes me wonder how my group will handle it. Having your insights and well-written reviews is very helpful. I have read through the first four parts of the adventure and like it a lot. I hope WotC does more adventures like this. One thing I like particularly about this adventure is that it is long enough that there can be several mini parts that the players can either hit or miss, with consequences down the line (both positive and negative) based upon their earlier actions. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
|
maijstral
Underboss
2105 Posts
| | 03/22/2006 11:49 PM |
| Just bought The Red Hand of Doom and have read up to end of Part 1 and skimmed the rest so far and its great to read another DM's running of this adventure.
I enjoy reading how your players are handling things it gives me some idea of what to expect and maybe how to tweak things. Hope your party can make it through the bulk of the adventure before I plan on running it so I can see how they handle things.
Most of the people I play with don't have alot of time during the school year so I'm hoping I can run this during the summer.
I really like a the detail in the adventure, the different senarios, what happens if the PC's do this or don't do that but it also leaves some things a little open ended in case the PC's go completely off script.
| | | |
|
Fry
Underboss
1724 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 12:59 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
bringing in a Wizard/Bard (don't ask).
I really, really want to, but since you specifically asked not to, I won't.
I drew a total blank on the Temple of Doom reference until someone else commented on it and I went back and reread it. Of course, since I was three when that movie came out, I think I have a little bit of an excuse. | |
"Why am I all sticky and naked? Did I miss something fun?"
-Vindicated champion of Tordek, Dwarf Champion | |
| Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 7:10 PM |
| Beware the Chuuls.
First up, I introduced a new house rule: normalized healing magic. Cure potions and prepared cure spells are maximized, cure wands are auto-5 on the die roll, and spontaneous cure spells are still rolled. Didn’t affect the game significantly, but I figured I’d make mention of it.
Last night’s Red Hand of Doom session started out pretty well. The party had quickly agreed to scout the Rhest Trail, to the north, to see if there was additional danger of forces approaching along that route, and to investigate the reports of a blockade across that thoroughfare, as well as determine the nature of the goblin scrawl “Saavrith” marked upon the blackfens on the map the PCs liberated from Wyrmlord Koth.
I’m running this adventure in Eberron, in the region around the border shared by Thrane, Aundair, and Breland. Despite the relative proximity of those nations, Elsir Vale remains somewhat remote, with only an occasional Orien caravan arriving in Brindol, and a week’s journey from Brindol eastward to the nearest lightning rail stop. The region is technically claimed by Breland, but the locals have no particular allegiance to any of the nations, since it changed hands so many times during the Last War.
The town of Brindol, warned of the growing goblinoid army, has sent word to Breland, and even put a call out to the mercenary Red Gauntlet Regiment, to help defend the vale, but reinforcements are not expected to arrive very quickly. Therefore the town is preparing itself for a siege, while sending groups out to gauge the strength of the incoming force.
So the PCs went north, and after a few days of travel found themselves at the blockade on the Rhest trail. Since the blockade was made of wood, one of the PCs (the wizbard) had the bright idea to simply burn it down – so he grabbed some oil and snuck up (with the Lurk) to set the place aflame. A quick trip down Rules Lane: Against an object, fire attacks deal half damage, and then you apply hardness. Wood has a hardness of 5. Since he was concentrating the oil on one section of the wood, I decided that he could do 3d6 fire damage each round, but only for a short time. If he did 10 hp of damage, then the wood would catch on fire. Since he decided to start the fire next to where the palisade meets the tower, I decided that if the fire caught, it would climb up to the roof of the tower, and eventually bring down the tower (though leave the palisade mostly intact).
The plan almost went off without a hitch, except that the Wizbard made a bit of noise (must have been humming to himself), and the hobgoblins in the tower took notice. Combat ensued. A note to DMs running this encounter: The Ogres are terrible – absolutely terrible – at throwing spears. Had I more time, I would have used my Arcane Ballista minis and had each ogre man a ballista at the end of each palisade, giving them like a +5 or +6 to hit for 3d6 damage. As it was, one ogre wasted a few rounds throwing (+1 for 1d8+5? Not counting range increments) while the other ogre stabbed down at the wizbard who was busy blowing on the fire to get it going. The archers got a couple lucky shots in, but the battle only became interesting once I had the remaining ogre and the two sergeants open the front gate and join in a melee.
For the most part, the party cleaned house. The only truly “huh?” moment was when the Lurk decided to Tumble to flank the ogre. Would have been fine, but he needed to tumble through the ogre or sergeant, and had only a +10 for his DC 25 check. With a natural 5 on the roll, even an action point couldn’t save him, so the sergeant got an AoO – not only hitting but also critting, and the Lurk dropping.
Despite that self-provoked attack, the PCs had little injury, so healed up and traveled onward, rested at the intersection of the trail leading into the Rhest ruins, and then moved into the Black Fens.
The PCs were close to level 6 at this point, and knew that one more encounter would tip them over, so they were really asking for what happened next. I was ready to run the encounter that’s supposed to take place at the end of first day in the swamp, but figured I’d check for a random encounter. Dice rolling indicated a Chuul would be encountered, and I just happen to have a Chuul or two, and so the battle was set.
Over the course of the battle, I determined a few things. First, the PCs were unlucky. Second, the Chuul was a bad matchup for the party. Third, this party is cursed.
The battle started ok, with the wizbard initially grappled during the surprise round (turns out the Chuul is pretty good at hiding, especially when I roll a 19 and get a 32) but escaping through use of his Least Dragonmark ability. But the Chuul’s +7 init mod meant that he went before the next PC in the line (it started at the back of the party), so the Lurk was quickly grappled. The Monster Manual has a great bit of tactics to use when the Chuul is outnumbered – it uses a move action to put a grappled PC in its tentacles (to eat and paralyze) and a standard to attack and grab a second PC. Once the PC in its mouth is paralyzed, it drops that PC and repeats the process. Within about 4 rounds, the Kalashtar Lurk, Dragonborn Paladin, and Shifter Cleric had all been grabbed and paralyzed. The wizbard, apart from a couple magic missiles, had only area-effect spells, and the warlock didn’t initially want to risk blasting his allies by shooting his eldritch blast into the grapple.
The warlock eventually overcame his fear, however, realizing his only chance at victory was to destroy his party members as quickly as possible. Or at least that’s what it seemed like. His first blast into the grapple took out the cleric, and his second kept the lurk from struggling further.
The combat lasted long enough that even those that were initially paralyzed were able to get back into the fight (the paralysis wears off after 6 rounds), but it seemed even that wasn’t able to save them. In the end, the Chuul was down to low-teens hp, but all of the PCs were unconscious, and set aside for Chuul-snacking.
Ah well.. I decided it was best if that encounter didn’t actually happen.
I think next week, I’ll spring it on them again, and see if they change their strategy at all.
| |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:13 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Note to self: Shoe hates PCs.
Not really. I don't. Honest.
To be honest, I'm starting to develop a complex, here - I mean, these encounters haven't been entirely overwhelming or anything...
Granted, the party is somewhat non-standard, and the closest thing they have to standard is their warforged barbarian that hasn't been around for a couple weeks. But still.
I've even put house rules in place to help PCs out:
- move action to draw and quaff potion
- normalized healing
- feat every odd level, stat boost every even level
Maybe I do hate them -- I must be in denial... | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:22 PM |
| No, that's not what it is.
D&D has a mix of different character types and players. With 3e the concept of character optimization really took off ... the rules were streamlined, far simpler than previous versions and easily ported / morphed into different formats (PC games, minis, whatever) but that left room for some creative maximizing.
If you want to see some REAL TPKs, watch/play in some of the "Living" series of events. Living Greyhawk, espescially, has a large set of hard-core optimizers. With no DM and roleplay-involved story arc you end up with some seriously efficient combat machines. As such, the power creep on the modules (including the base creature abilities, their tactics, etc.) has steadily grown. If you take a home-brew set of characters who are not optimized they run the risk of being obliterated.
This bubbles up as well to you guys up in the great north-west. Imagine that same combat, the same tactics but a hyper-optimized party ... the chuul would have been dog food.
Improving their healing situation helps a little bit, but once you start popping potions you're in react-mode ... instead of doing damage, now you're playing the keep-alive game. Every round you spend popping potions is a round you're not swinging/zapping/etc. ... and since they aren't playing a timed event, it doesn't matter if you can simply "live" until round six or seven ... you're just postponing the inevitable.
Of course, the paralysis-immune Warforged Barbarian might have made a HUGE difference ... | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
| Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:38 PM |
| Oh believe me, I know about the min-maxers. While most of my players have moved away from the munchkinesque minmaxing that plagued our college days, my other group (running through... a different adventure) could be called "efficient".
I deal regularly with the RPGA guys downstairs, so I know what sorts of things LG's got going on.
Were that same encounter to be run for my colleagues, well - the chuul would've been dead. Some Goliath Barbarian, stun-monkey, or glitterdust caster would have turned the tide.
The potions change, btw, is to allow a PC to still contribute. Sure, using a move action to heal is reactive, but that PC can still be active that round. IE: attack, 5-foot-step back, drink potion. Especially in the sub +6 BAB range, where the PCs aren't giving up anything for that move. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:46 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Ah, I didn't catch the potion-as-a-move-action ... that's handy. Does it still provoke AoOs?
Yeah. didn't want to make it too easy. As it is, it's a good way to encourage disposable buffs at the beginning of combat (animal buffs, shield of faith, prot evil, etc), and allow the PCs just a tad more staying power at the end, with cure pots. Normalizing healing also means that your cure light pot always gives 9, and cure mod always 19, so there's a tangible difference between the 50gp and 300gp cost, and you don't risk "wasting" 300gp on only 5hp of healing. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
| The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:49 PM |
| Wow stat every even and feat every odd?
Great reports Shoe, keep em coming. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
|
Wrackspawn
ChristopherGroves
Warlord
6093 Posts
| | 03/23/2006 9:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
quote:
Originally posted by ChristopherGroves
Ah, I didn't catch the potion-as-a-move-action ... that's handy. Does it still provoke AoOs?
Yeah. didn't want to make it too easy. As it is, it's a good way to encourage disposable buffs at the beginning of combat (animal buffs, shield of faith, prot evil, etc), and allow the PCs just a tad more staying power at the end, with cure pots. Normalizing healing also means that your cure light pot always gives 9, and cure mod always 19, so there's a tangible difference between the 50gp and 300gp cost, and you don't risk "wasting" 300gp on only 5hp of healing.
Tell me about it. I was doing Shield Other on two of the front-liners during our last game w/ Kiddoc on rolled a 1 and 2 on my first Repair Moderate and a 2 and 2 on my second ... not very nice. | |
Triangle DDM Skirmish Group | My Email | 45-ish trades and counting | Stuff for Trade
* * * Show your brother some love and click here * * * | |
|
Zeb
Underboss
2027 Posts
| | 03/25/2006 3:51 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
Normalizing healing also means that your cure light pot always gives 9, and cure mod always 19, so there's a tangible difference between the 50gp and 300gp cost, and you don't risk "wasting" 300gp on only 5hp of healing.
Is this a homebrew rule of yours, or did you just implement it for this group? I would assume it speeds up game play a tad as well...interesting concept. | |
Email Offers | Trade History
Champion of the Frost Giant Jarl
"Pray that you meet death standing on your feet, rather than on your knees." | |
| Knight of Argenis
Corim Danex
Warlord
6809 Posts
West Valley City, Utah
| | 03/25/2006 4:03 AM |
| | I just ran my party through the Vraath Keep. One character (there are eight) got tired of waiting for everyone to ride their horses in or dismount or whatever in the clearing inside the keep. People were just sitting around not knowing what to do. The character decided to open the door to the stable, spot the goblins in a surprise (for the rest of the party) round. She used her turn to shout "GOBLINS!" loud enough for the entire party to hear (some were still about 50 feet outside the keep on their horses. With someone in the party doing favors like that to the baddies, the goblin worg riders were saved the challenge of warning the rest of the keep before aid came. The party succeeded in triggering every encounter in the keep in one big fight. If I hadn't targeted several horses with some of the attacks, I think the party could have been hurt pretty badly. As it was, Koth strolled into the fight and had a perfectly set up lightning bolt that nailed multiple targets and dropped a horse and animal companion wolf. I could have had him do a second lightning bolt on the next round, since the party didn't move that much, and there was still a nice line up. I decided to go easy and just use the wand to magic missile the wizard (who got knocked down), instead of potentially killing the wizard, the wolf, and the downed horse. They had had it pretty rough already at that point. They ended up all surviving, but that was one long fight. It took most of the session. | |
"Look to God and live." Alma 37:47
Vindicated Champ of Hippogriff (Arcadian Hippogriff) and Uncommon Horse | |
| Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/25/2006 1:24 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Zeb
quote:
Originally posted by Shoe
Normalizing healing also means that your cure light pot always gives 9, and cure mod always 19, so there's a tangible difference between the 50gp and 300gp cost, and you don't risk "wasting" 300gp on only 5hp of healing.
Is this a homebrew rule of yours, or did you just implement it for this group? I would assume it speeds up game play a tad as well...interesting concept.
It's a rule I'd been contemplating for a few weeks - the party had liberated quite a few potions of cure moderate wounds from the hobgoblins at vraath keep and at the bridge, and there were enough poor rolls on potion consumption that it got me thinking about it.
But Yes, homebrew rule, and this group is the only one using it at the time, but my other group will once we meet again.
For a while I'd been running with a cure light wand just healing 5hp/charge out of combat, which speeds up apres-combat healing. | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
Korhal_IV
Sergeant
852 Posts
| | 03/26/2006 12:18 AM |
| | Shoe, this is awesome! I'm running RHoD in Eberron starting Tuesday, so this is great! | |
I now have a Have/Want list updated with all my rares! Stop by to take a look!
Trade References: www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8560 | |
|
Ackrus
Warrior
282 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 2:56 AM |
| | So for the last encounter with the Chuuls was it a total party fatality? | |
Champion of Halaster Blackcloak
Rage!!!!!!!!!! | |
|
griffrat
Commander
3506 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 6:30 AM |
| Shoe, thanks again for the updates!! I am Soooooo looking forward to running this module!!
I see the module as an against all odds type thing and have a little pep talk I am going to read to the players before the first die is rolled. After reading the module, thinking about the "highly organized" nature of the zealots/wyrmlords, the reports from shoe and others about coming close to TPKs. I think letting the players know up front that this is a tough game will help in the case of the TPK.
BTW, this is not to say that players in any group are not "getting" it or coming up with bad plans. Just saying that bad things happen to good players. This is one of those "razor's edge" type games where it is not going to be easy. But if adventuring was easy all the commoners would be doing it!!!
Thanks again!!! | |
Ambassador of FUN!!! | |
| Professional Fan of DDM
Shoe
Sergeant
804 Posts
| | 03/28/2006 12:57 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ackrus
So for the last encounter with the Chuuls was it a total party fatality?
yup.
We were joking around the office that the warlock, once he had blasted a couple party members into unconsciousness, should have blasted the wizbard and fled. (to keep anybody from talking) | |
Professional Fan of DDM | |
|
| | You are not authorized to post a reply. |
|
| |
ActiveForums 3.7 | You must be signed in to participate in the
games. |