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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
    
 | | 06/19/2006 1:16 PM |
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Not sure if anyone over at WotC will even see this, but on the off chance that they do. . .
First of all, big props for making a real effort to maintain continuity with some of the best aspects of D&D's past. It was delightful to see, in the new Demonweb, some of the same world-gates from the old module Q1, now leading to fully-conquered realms. I was also very pleased at the integration of the Qlippoth (i.e. the Obyriths) from Armies of the Abyss--the idea of an older Abyssal subrace supplanted by the tanar'ri is quite appealing.
Also, mad, mad props to whoever decided to maroon a draeden (!!!!) as an entire Abyssal layer. That is GENIUS.
I am a little puzzled, though, by the decision to lower the CR of the Demon Lords all across the board. As recently Dragon issue #337, we've got Zuggtmoy at a respectable CR of 25, but now she's down to 21 or 20 (don't remember which), with several of her coolest abilities (such as transforming beings she engulfs into her servants) simply gone. I'm just wondering what the rationale was for weakening these near-godlike beings to the point where they can be killed by a party that isn't even 20th level. It seems a bit odd that, say, Demogorgon (who's been around for countless ages) clocks in as less of a threat than a bronze dragon who's lived a mere twelve centuries. Does this change mean that the Demon Lords' counterparts (Morwel, Talisid, etc.) have also been scaled down?
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taliesin
Underboss
1113 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 3:23 PM |
| The rational was that fighting a demon lord should be an endcap to a 20 level campaign, not an event consigned only to epic level adventures.
They can be toughened up easily enough by adding hit dice. | |
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Grey Dragon
Sneak
75 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 4:10 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by taliesin
The rational was that fighting a demon lord should be an endcap to a 20 level campaign, not an event consigned only to epic level adventures.
They can be toughened up easily enough by adding hit dice.
In fact, there's an entire page or so that goes into detail on how to "advance" the demon lords to make them more powerful. The versions given are baselines, so that high-level (but non-epic) characters can fight them as a climactic encounter to a campaign that doesn't extend into epic territory. In campaigns featuring epic-level PCs, they can (and should) be buffed up accordingly. The goal is for them to be at a power level such that they *can* be defeated, but only by the concerted efforts of the campaign's most powerful heroes. | |
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Lachlarlan_the_Mad
Sergeant
470 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 5:19 PM |
| My main question is about Pale Night's 'Truth Beyond the Veil' ability.
It's listed as a fear and death effect. Does this mean someone immune to one is immune to the ability, or does it require immunity to both?
If something is immune to it, do they act as if they'd automatically passed their save? Do they get to see the true face of evil and simply say 'meh'? | |
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dagonet
Sergeant
442 Posts
| | 06/19/2006 8:05 PM |
| taliesin and Grey Dragon,
I understand your points, but I'm still a bit taken aback by the scope of the change and the lack of an explanation accompanying it. As I said, we very recently saw Zuggtmoy up at CR 25, and Adimarchus (from Shackled City, I believe he also was CR 25) was the final encounter for a party that was almost certainly 20th level or below. This is not a complaint, but it seems like a rather sweeping alteration to happen unannounced.
Lachlarlan,
Excellent point. And am I reading Pale Night's entry correctly, in that she can't actually hurt anything which is immune to Charisma drain?
Cheers,
Dagonet | |
"People should not be afraid of their governments. Governments should be afraid of their people."
Champion of Kyuss and his Servants of Squishy Doom | |
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