qillan_dvra
Underboss
1588 Posts
    
Oztraylya
 | | 09/25/2006 3:53 PM |
| Most learned collectors of plactic crack,
A trader recently made an unrealistic trade proposal to me, after spamming his/her wants on my trade thread. A counter, in his/her favour, was made and accepted.
This trader has only one completed trade whereas I have 93 on the current trade format and 54 before then. So naturally I asked the he/she send first.
He/she has replied that sending first is not an option.
I have since pointed out that it is a stipulation of trading with me that a specific number of completed trades are required before simultaneous shipping can occur.
I am just wondering whether the rest of you believe I am out-of-order or is this other trader deluding him/herself?
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Champion of the Aurak AND Sivak Draconian
Knight Champion of Yochlol - Handmaiden of Lolth
My H/W List
Completed Trades = 128
Bad Jujus Geka, Chaotic Good (x2) | |
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emontedodger
Warrior
285 Posts
El Monte, CA
| | 09/25/2006 3:58 PM |
| | You shouldn't have to send first. An established trader like yourself has proven time and time again that you can be trusted. Don't let a noob talk you into sending first. | |
Completed transactions: 40 | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3813 Posts
USA
| | 09/25/2006 3:59 PM |
| IMO you are right no where near being 'out of line.' Not only did you clearly stipulate your trade requirements ahead of time, they are standard trading requirements for all of us here. See said trade thread:
http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/forumid/64/postid/438363/view/topic/Default.aspx
Your trade partner if he / she wishes to trade with anyone else here on Maxmini's had best learn a little trading etiquette (see above thread).Â
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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Bert the Troll
Commander
3858 Posts
Adelaide
| | 09/25/2006 4:03 PM |
| I don't think you are out of order. Far from it.
I think the other trader has the right to ask sim-send, and to refuse to trade if not accepted, but to demand it is silly. As would be getting upset when you won't. And they shouldnt get offended when/if asked to send first. Even if blunty told.
With 93 (+54) trades, comapred to one, I`ld be shocked if you did agree to sim send, or anything other than the other trader with 1 send first.
Most traders insist on around 10 trades before they would think about NOT stipulating send first.
It shouldnt be taken as personal insult. Anymore than ummm taxes.
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"Mutton yesterday, mutton today, and blimey, if it don't look like mutton again tomorrer." Bert the Troll - The Hobbit
Semi-Secret sig business: "In the age of the internet attaching a famous name to your personal opinion to give more weight to it is a very valid strategy." - Benjamin Franklin
Champion of Epic Lolth, Orcus, & Demogorgon and bring us Asmodeus! | |
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jgsugden
Commander
4320 Posts
Walnut Creek, CA
| | 09/25/2006 5:26 PM |
| | I think this is a reasonable approach. If a trader has less than 5 different trade partners, I usually ask them to send first. | |
Champion of Meepo _*_ Myztek on the Wizards Boards. _*_ (2206 DDM on 03/06/06)
Please note: The use of the  indicates an attempt at humor ... often a bad attempt.
BAD EBAY SELLERS LIST (CLICK HERE): AVOID AT ALL COSTS
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Nixlord
Underboss
2464 Posts
Quezon City, Philippines
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Oblique
Skirmisher
20 Posts
| | 09/25/2006 6:04 PM |
| qillan,
Dude you're well within your elderish rights to decline those terms. Well within your rights also to prescribe said trader Seroquel 300mg or. dly.
What country is this person in? As soon as I read your post I thought for some reason... ChaoticGood. | |
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gss_000
Commander
3204 Posts
Baltimore, MD
| | 09/25/2006 6:04 PM |
| I think you're in the right as well. If someone with only one trade pushed this issue too hard, I'd be suspicious of a scam, even though the person could be the most trustworthy person on the planet.
I have few trades and I still expect to send first for a few more trades at the least. | |
Completed trades: blackthorne, Drakkengi,Thorgrin, Ironfist Boulderbender x2, ckissee, nasamonkey, Username, Star, Ace13 x3, emontedodger x2, Drconveyor, church, Joeyb, Sir Bozak The Damned, Xeromod, the other guy x2, Qucalion of Celene, Dagaron x2, berus316, qillan_dvra, AshloreDarkShadow
For further info go to My Reference Thread and Trade Interface
Champion of Radiant Sevant | |
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Username
Warlord
5638 Posts
| | 09/25/2006 6:21 PM |
| | I think I have also been hit up by this trader... | |
Originally posted by Schooly_D
Username - he deals in minis
Champion of Lhesh Haruuc Shaarat'kor | |
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yack
Commander
3164 Posts
Gatineau Canada
| | 09/25/2006 6:39 PM |
| I'm a believer that if you do not have more then 10 trades WITHIN maxminis you should send first.
Your not out of line..........at all. | |
Champion of the Peryton
Vindicated Champion : Pit Fiend, Devourer
DW: Duergar Priest
RPG Only!!!! The Drumming Drunkn' DM | |
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Wolfgang
Commander
3005 Posts
Milton, Ontario Canada
| | 09/25/2006 7:17 PM |
| | I too was made an offer by this trader and i agreed and i asked him to ship first and was told no way i have ALOT of refs all over the net and then cancelled trade i only have 11 completed but if an icon like you asked me to ship first that wouldn't be a problem so no you were not out of line at all | |
Proud member since March 26 2005
Champion of the SIVAK DRACONIAN
Joke champion of the epic sage!
Demonweb called shot - Sivak Draconian
Feywild called shot - Sivak Draconian
Number of sets with Sivak Draconian as my called shot - 9
Completed trades: (78)
Bad traders(2) DJchuckles, sardal
Trade References
Email Me | |
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Faragdar the Wise
Commander
3485 Posts
Albuquerque, NM, USA
| | 09/25/2006 7:54 PM |
| | While it's always a good idea to be polite, even in response to unreasonable requests or suspected scam, there's nothing wrong with your position. I'd especially be concerned in your position because virtually every trade is overseas for you, as I recall. By the same token, I can understand how a new trader would be nervous about sending first on an overseas trade, since he's probably never done it before and doesn't know what to expect. (Of course, based on the other responses, that may not be the issue with this particular trader.) I have several times asked new traders to send first, but they've always been amenable to doing so, and I don't even have quite as many trades as you. | |
"Before God we are all equally wise - and equally foolish." - Albert Einstein
Champion of Myopic Half-Orcs
Winner, WBC X | |
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Zenako
Commander
3468 Posts
| | 09/25/2006 8:22 PM |
| | Accepted protocol on these trading boards has always been that anyone new to these boards can be expected to be asked to send first until a handful of trades have been completed to the satisfaction of both parties. Anyone new to these boards who insists otherwise comes off as suspect based on this standard. | |
Built the addition for this addiction, now on to the "gaming table" project....
http://www.maxminis.com/hw_list.asp?user=Zenako last updated 29 May 2006
Set Status: in a nutshell = all of all
In Process trades 0), (Sig last updated 05/29/06) 300 plus Completed Trades -
If I seem scarce at times...blame DDO - Sarlona | |
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grnblk95
Sneak
111 Posts
| | 09/25/2006 8:30 PM |
| | ....cough.....varez?....cough.... | |
You can get away with alot of stuff in life as long as you make it look like its all you know how to do! | |
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Nobody Important
Sergeant
718 Posts
| | 09/25/2006 9:24 PM |
| As someone with very few trades done I take a little offense with saying a limited trade history is all bad.
That said, I do believe you should be cautions around traders with poor manners. If the trade is in their favor they should be happy to send first as well. | |
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dj-chuckles
Underboss
2454 Posts
The State that invented Spam!
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Oryan77
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 12:21 AM |
| Funny, there's a new trader on the WotC forums pulling the same stunt
with people...I wonder if it's the same dude. Actually, there's been
two traders there in the last month demanding that
people send first when they have 0 trades. People actually sent first
to one of them and he turned out to be a thief! So you have every right
to demand that he sends first.
When I was new to trading I actually told people I wasn't going to send
first. I wasn't rude about it, but being new, I was very hesitant to
trade with people because I'm not a trusting person. I figured if they
wanted my minis bad enough they would have to trust me instead. Once I
was pointed out to the rules that suggest traders with fewer than 5
trades should expect to send first, I realized I needed to suck it up.
So I only traded with people that had a lot of trades until I no longer
had to send first. After I was an experienced trader and learned how
often people rip others off, I understood completely why people wanted
me to send first.
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realmaster
Underboss
1969 Posts
Home of the 2002 Winter Olympics
| | 09/26/2006 12:41 AM |
| | He/she should be expecting to send first until they have built up a reference. I had my days of sending first and still do with some trades. | |
Thanks, realmaster. Let's split up!!!!!
RIP Gary Gygax 1938-2008
Unhallowed vindicated champion: van richten
Successful trades:72
Trades in progress:0
Have issues with:1 burning_kazuki
Bad trades:0 | |
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The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
11227 Posts
The Dark and Forbidding Lands of The Necromancer.
| | 09/26/2006 3:46 AM |
| Posted By qillan_dvra on 09/25/2006 3:53 PM
I am just wondering whether the rest of you believe I am out-of-order or is this other trader deluding him/herself?
No, you're not out of line. Stick to your guns and don't give in. That's one way scams happen.
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Ghendar - Now with 51% more snark
Champion of the Spider Eater with rider.
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
How many times in life do you get to eat your own Cthulhu? - Posted By Pedro on 03/31/2008 2:29 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10301 Posts
United States
| | 09/26/2006 5:31 AM |
| Heck, I still ask people with 10 or 20 trades to trade first. If I don't know someone, and there's anything at all significant going out into the vast emptiness of that funny world we call trust in trading, I ask for them to ship first. Fortunately, I have roughly enough of everything that I can pretty much decline any trade offer (or have it rejected in a huff) and not worry about it.
I could see this being a problem for some people (really, really wanting certain pieces and so maybe trusting a trader that they're really not so sure about), but it's nothing for me to reject a trade.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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kyrin
Commander
3152 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 5:53 AM |
| You are well within your rights, my friend. Trust is earned through a good track record. Stick to your guns. No send first, no deal.
JIM
aka kyrin | |
My Have/Want List <-|-|->My Trades and References 1 <-|-|->My Trades and References 2
Pronounce "Drow" like "crow"! Viva la Revolution! We Shall Overcome!
Vindicated Champion of the Stirge! Vindicated Champion of the Githyanki Knight on Red Dragon!!
Vindicated Champion of the Androsphinx! | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3193 Posts
Netherlands
| | 09/26/2006 5:53 AM |
| Sounds fishy indeed,
I myself have never traded online, but if I were to do so, I wouldn't expect an established member of the community to send first. The dude needs to learn some manners indeed.
D.
PS. Kyrin, whats up? Need to boost your post count  | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and Hardcopy Printed DDM 2.0 Stat-Cards for all Minis! | |
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Sir Bozak The Damned
Commander
2854 Posts
Québec
| | 09/26/2006 7:39 AM |
| yack spoke my exact thoughts on the matter. Also, someone that has had disputed trades, no matter their total trades, should agree to send first, if the other party requires it.
So, qillan, you are far from out of line and someone like you should be able to make his own rules. Good luck
Posted By yack on 09/25/2006 6:39 PM
I'm a believer that if you do not have more then 10 trades WITHIN maxminis you should send first.
Your not out of line..........at all.
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Champion Of Kaz the Minotaur Knight of ALL Draconians. Squire Of ALL Constructs
The number ONE fanatic Of Dread Guards ! I own 66 !!! And the GMR1 !!!
119 completed trades so far...NB called shot: Medusa | |
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gausse
Sergeant
951 Posts
Wisconsin
| | 09/26/2006 9:10 AM |
| Posted By qillan_dvra on 09/25/2006 3:53 PM
Most learned collectors of plactic crack,
A trader recently made an unrealistic trade proposal to me, after spamming his/her wants on my trade thread. A counter, in his/her favour, was made and accepted.
This trader has only one completed trade whereas I have 93 on the current trade format and 54 before then. So naturally I asked the he/she send first.
He/she has replied that sending first is not an option.
I have since pointed out that it is a stipulation of trading with me that a specific number of completed trades are required before simultaneous shipping can occur.
I am just wondering whether the rest of you believe I am out-of-order or is this other trader deluding him/herself?
What city are they in? Wondering if its Allard or ScottWallas again, trying a new scam. | |
270+ Trades Completed (194 maxminis | 50 wizards | 29 hordelings)
References: http://www.maxminis.com/Forums/tabid/104/view/topic/forumid/53/postid/435268/Default.aspx
H/W List: http://www.maxminis.com/hwlist.asp?user=gausse
Bad Trades: Chaotic Good (Strongbow Lone Eagle), dndonuts, Allard, ScottWallace
Email: gausse2@yahoo.com
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Sulaco
Underboss
1605 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 9:11 AM |
| Just a shot in the dark: it was Varez (aka. Drizzt911) wasn't it?
If he doesn't want to send first then don't trade with him.
You've earned the right to require this, he's earned nothing but scorn both here and on the Wizards boards.
I offered him a trade involving Drizzt - his most-wanted figure - but
when I stipulated that he must send first he never even bothered to
reply.
Be very, very wary dealing with this guy. I smell scammer.
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Champion of the Gelatinous Cube. Nemesis of Gnomes and Dinosaurs.
Over the centuries, mankind has tried many ways of combating the forces of evil... prayer, fasting, good works and so on. Up until Doom, no one seemed to have thought about the double-barrel shotgun. ~ Terry Pratchett | |
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Oryan77
Sergeant
955 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 10:09 AM |
| So it is the same guy huh? I figured...
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Miniatures for sale *more added 07/17/08*: Click here
I will buy your unwanted D&D WotC minis collection (DDM only). Email me your asking price! | |
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grnblk95
Sneak
111 Posts
| | 09/26/2006 12:50 PM |
| | Twice I had a deal worked out with varez in which he had sent me a proposal.....and twice he decided to cancel the deal because I had asked him to send first......he needs to grow up! Never again! | |
You can get away with alot of stuff in life as long as you make it look like its all you know how to do! | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9044 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 09/26/2006 5:05 PM |
| | qillan_dvra, nothing wrong with your trading practices. Make the new guy send first, or tell him to trade with the locals. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Kezghan
Sneak
55 Posts
Greater Vancouver
| | 09/26/2006 6:42 PM |
| | I posted my thoughts on this trader in the traders own trade reference thread. Look for it a nice collection of links. | |
Top 8 at 2008 Constructed Championships. Orienthrall Express baby! | |
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glauron
Underboss
1379 Posts
Sydney, Australia
| | 09/26/2006 11:09 PM |
| Seems a clear cut case of newbie sends first. It's all about building a reputation and trust. The trading rules exist because some people in the past took advantage of the trust of others. That said, we can also specify personal trading requirements.
Personally, I always send immediately after locking in a deal, and I let the other party know I've sent my end. I don't even bother to inform the other party what I expect from them as far as who sends first, or when. Buth then I only trade with people who have established a 'reputation' with me. This could be a new member to this forum, but with whom I've exchanged a bunch of emails. Or it could be someone who has 1000+ plus posts and hundreds of trades.
So far, I've been lucky. I support qillan-dvra 100%. If it doesn't feel right don't trade, or get the other party to send first.
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I have always been here. | |
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qillan_dvra
Underboss
1588 Posts
Oztraylya
| | 10/06/2006 4:29 PM |
| You may or may not be interested to know that the trader in question has since cancelled the trade.
I note also that several people are now having issues with this very same trader - another one for the blacklist I believe.
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Champion of the Aurak AND Sivak Draconian
Knight Champion of Yochlol - Handmaiden of Lolth
My H/W List
Completed Trades = 128
Bad Jujus Geka, Chaotic Good (x2) | |
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