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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
    
 | | 05/21/2006 2:16 AM |
| Given the popularity of lawful construct builds and the perceived weakness of Chaotic Good, I assumed I'd see about 2/3 of the field in Kentucky consist of lawful factions. Thus, I tested and ran a Death Slaad band: Death Slaad x3, Orc Wardrummer, Quaggoth Slave, Abyssal Maw, Hyena, and Orc Warrior. My assumption proved correct. Out of seven matches, I faced only one chaotic warband. I chose Dragon Shrine as my map, figuring that the good lines of sight and energy protection would help me out.
Game One: My opponent was Myth Master Jr., who ran Orog Warlord, Chraal x3, Helmed Horror, Orc Savage x2, and Goblin Skirmisher x4. He won map initiative and chose the Fane of Lolth. I won setup init and asked him to set up first. He split up his warband between the two separate starting areas on side A of the Fane. He was totally unfamiliar with Death Slaads, and I was able to set up in such a way as to have first round LOS to his starting area. To make matters worse for my opponent, he won first round init and passed it to me. I chaos hammered his Chraals and Orog three times during the first round. I stayed ahead on points the entire game, although it got a bit tight toward the end, as I had thought his second Chraal had used its breath weapon, but it hadn't. The dice were on my side, however, and I had my first victory.
1-0
Game Two: My opponent for game two was nowhere to be found at the start of the game. I was awarded a win.
2-0
Game Three: I faced off against Sharn Inquisitor, who ran Helmed Horror x3, Duergar Champion, Half-Orc Fighter, Dire Rat x2, and Goblin Skirmisher. I caught two of his horrors with two chaos hammers and stayed even on victory area points. Then, the dice went horribly wrong for Sharn Inquisitor. At one point, he even missed my AC 22 Death Slaad with a Helmed Horror that was flanking and within six squares of the Half-Orc Fighter! Meanwhile, even my Abyssal Maw got in a hit or two on a Helmed Horror. I never got off the third chaos hammer, but I was fortunate enough to win against this excellent player.
3-0
Game Four: I faced Robert Craft [screen name?], who ran Rakshasa, Duergar Champion x4, Large Duergar, and Timber Wolf x2. James won map initiative and chose Drow Outpost. There was a bit of confusion during set up. It was noisy, and I was focusing on getting my supplies in order. Apparently, James asked me if I could hit his starting area with any ranged attacks, and he was under the impression that I said no. I didn't really understand what he was asking. I did tell him that my chaos hammers had a range of sight, but I guess he thought that I told him I couldn't move and get LOS on round one. I felt badly about the misunderstanding, but I definitely didn't say that. I would have declined to answer, rather than give away my strategy. Anyway, I was able to get off two chaos hammers on James' starting area and one more on a pair of his Duergars, which routed one of them, and he never quite recovered.
4-0
Game Five: Finally, a chaotic opponent. I faced off against Jim McKinney [screen name?], who ran Frenzied Berserker, Greenfang Druid, Wand Expert, Rikka, Graycloak x2, Wolf x2, and Elf Warrior. Jim is an excellent player who handed me my only defeat at the Kentucky Open (with this exact warband!). Jim won map initiative and chose Broken Demongate. I won placement initiative and chose the "good" side, figuring that I could effectively hide from his ranged attacks while preventing him from scoring victory points. That's exactly what I did for more than half the game. At 32 minutes, we were tied with five points each! Rikka joined the game late and eventually succumbed to a deadly rend. The game was very tight, and about ten minutes were left, when we got hung up on a ruling. I hit his Frenzied Berserker twice with my Death Slaad, which simultaneously invoked deadly rend and brought the Berserker to 0 hit points, triggering death strike. I was of the opinion that, as the acting player, I got to choose the order of effects. The judge ruled against me, and the Berserker got off another attack on one of my Death Slaads. [Edit: It turns out that the judge's ruling was incorrect, but I don't believe that the ruling altered the outcome of the game.] Still, it was neck and neck when I finally succeeded in routing the Greenfang Druid. Now, if I could kill his one remaining Graycloak, I'd win. I hit, and the Graycloak rolled morale. 19! I hit again, killed it, and I was declared winner. Then, my opponent remembered that I was using Intimidating Drumbeat to lower his saves, so we agreed to roll back the win and allow the Graycloak to route. Time was called before the Greenfang and Graycloak could route off the board. According to my opponent's calculations, he was ahead by three points. My first loss [:(]
4-1
On the drive home, I thought about this match a lot, and I came to the realization that I may have won on points after all. I had eliminated: Frenzied Berserker, Wand Expert, Rikka, Graycloak, Wolf, and Elf Warrior, which equals 140 points. Jim had eliminated Death Slaad x2, Quaggoth Slave, Abyssal Maw, and Orc Warrior, which equals 124 points. He had ten more victory area points than I, so I think I should have won by six points. Ah well, it all turned out all right, so the lesson learned is to always go over the points carefully in a close match. I also have a habit of tracking total points, instead of keeping a running tally of each type of points gained, and I think I'll change that. Anyhoo ...
Game 6: I played the eventual winner, George Estill, who ran Helmed Horror x3, Flameskull, Dark Moon Monk, Large Duergar, Azer Raider, and Timber Wolf. George won map initiative and chose King's Road. I used my own Hyena as the target of three chaos hammers on round one and brought one of his Horrors to 45 hit points. I was happy with how I used the forest to position everyone to make that work. From there, though, my play got sloppy. I thought I could swoop in with my three Death Slaads and finish off the wounded Helmed Horror, then fade back. I ended up getting fireballed and slaughtered. My dice went sour, and George's heated up. Also, the forest cover was more to his advantage than mine, give the Horrors' superior attack bonuses. My second loss [:(]
4-2
And now began the nailbiting, as all of us 4-2's waited for the matches to finish, so that we could see the tiebreakers. It was excruciating ... but the Gods of DDM were on my side, and I pulled fourth place! I was so relieved!
Game Seven: I faced off against Jim McKinney again. This time, I won map initiative and chose the Dragon Shrine. Then, I won placement initiative and chose the "cold" side, figuring that the acid resistance would help me get closer to his Wand Expert. In retrospect, I think the Broken Demongate was actually a better choice. It's much easier on that map to hide from ranged attacks while preventing one's opponent from scoring victory area points. Also, I played way too aggressively, and a critical hit from Jim's Frenzied Berserker, followed by rolling a one on my morale check, put the kabosh on that plan. I fell apart pretty quickly this time, securing my spot in fourth place.
4-3
I feel great. For the most part, I played very well, and I've come a long way from last year, when I tied for eleventh place at the KY qualifier. I'd like to thank Bleys, GamePreserveGuy, Aesoph Darkfable, doubtofbuddha, Derry, and Kiddoc, who supported me with advice and/or playtesting. I'd also like to thank Keith Simpson, owner of Warlords Unlimited. He runs a great store and is a truly good person. I highly encourage anyone to attend events at this store. It's a friendly, professional, and CLEAN environment. Gen Con here I come! | | | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 2:29 AM |
| I found the following on Guy's clarifications page. I think this ruling is what prompted me to assume I could resolve deadly rend before my opponent's death strike. I could be wrong, though, as it may be the Frenzied Berserker that resolves deadly rend.
"Pushback
(06/18/05) Q. Say a Hill Giant attacks a Frenzied Berserker and would deal enough damage to destroy her. What happens first: The Hill Giant's Pushback, or the Frenzied Berserker's Death Strike?
A. Pushback happens first, then the Frenzied Berserker may make her Death Strike attack. This may allow the Hill Giant to push the Frenzied Berserker far enough away so that the Frenzied Berserker may not be able to target the Hill Giant with her Death Strike attack.
NOTE: This is an application of the Simultaneous Effects rule in the glossary. The Hill Giant's Pushback is triggered at the same time as the Frenzied Berserker's Death Strike. Because the Hill Giant is the acting creature, it must resolve its own effects (Pushback) before the opponent's effects (Death Strike) are resolved. (Yes, Pushback is really resolved by the Hill Giant, not by the Frenzied Berserker; Pushback allows the Hill Giant to *do* something: Move the Frenzied Berserker.)"
http://homepage.mac.com/guyf/DDM/Clarifications.html | | | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 2:55 AM |
| Yep, I was right. [Edit: I wasn't right. The judge and I were actually both wrong. Neither of us read the rules in the way Guy is suggesting.] According to Guy:
"The Deadly Rend says it is triggered on a hit.
The Death Strike glossary definition says it is triggered when the creature is reduced to 0 hp. This means the Death Strike isn't resolved until the creature takes the damage.
Effects that trigger on a hit are resolved before effects that trigger on damage taken. Thus, Deadly Rend happens first and can eliminate a Frenzied Berserker before she has a chance to Death Strike."
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9207593#post9207593 | | | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 6:22 AM |
| | Congrats on qualifying. Seems like there were a lot of 4-2's. Thats a good record. I wonder if we'll see more Death Slaad bands in the future because of all the LG bands we have seen. There have been loads lately in all the qualifiers. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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PatEllis15
Commander
4463 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 8:09 AM |
| Congrts Johnny.Quest!
I'm glad the "mistake" didn't cost you the chance to qualify. How was your judge? He pretty clearly made a mistake. Did he have Guy's Clarifications with him? Did you?
Pat E | |
"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 8:30 AM |
| | Thanks Pat and True_Blue. The judge was excellent. He was very knowledgable and had all of the clarifications on hand. This particular issue wasn't covered, and I didn't find the pushback clarification until I was home and could search the website by keyword. Heck, Aesoph even asked doubtofbuddha, who was unsure of the ruling. The judge ruled to the best of his knowledge, and I don't think the ruling changed the outcome of the game. | | | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10446 Posts
United States
| | 05/21/2006 8:56 AM |
| Good job johnny.quest, I'm happy you got the qualification. The misunderstanding in game four could have caused some hurt feelings; I'm glad it wasn't a problem.
Excellent warband choice against the existing meta.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Myth Master Jr
Sergeant
418 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 10:28 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
He was totally unfamiliar with Death Slaads, and I was able to set up in such a way as to have first round LOS to his starting area. To make matters worse for my opponent, he won first round init and passed it to me. I chaos hammered his Chraals and Orog three times during the first round.
The match that will forever haunt me![:)]
quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
Game Four: I faced James Praither, who ran Rakshasa, Duergar Champion x4, Large Duergar, and Timber Wolf x2.
You got the wrong name here, bub. James was with me and he was running CE with two Orc Champs and Two Ogre Ravagers. | |
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All Gamers of Any Sort are Welcomed!
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Jerry_Damage01
Sneak
146 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 10:37 AM |
| | Robert Craft played the Rakshasa and Duergar Champ build. | |
Champion of the Aspect of Damage
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 2:52 PM |
| | Thanks for the corrections, guys! | | | |
| The Defenestrator
AesophDarkfable
Warlord
5628 Posts
| | 05/21/2006 2:59 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
Yep, I was right. [Edit: I wasn't right. The judge and I were actually both wrong. Neither of us read the rules in the way Guy is suggesting.] According to Guy:
"The Deadly Rend says it is triggered on a hit.
The Death Strike glossary definition says it is triggered when the creature is reduced to 0 hp. This means the Death Strike isn't resolved until the creature takes the damage.
Effects that trigger on a hit are resolved before effects that trigger on damage taken. Thus, Deadly Rend happens first and can eliminate a Frenzied Berserker before she has a chance to Death Strike."
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=9207593#post9207593
Thats exactly what I was saying. It happened on the hit. As soon as the hit happened it was part of it. | |
Im out- find me on Hordelings if you want to chat. | |
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Benimoto
Underboss
1125 Posts
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Ragnarok
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 9:39 AM |
| I'm glad this incorrect ruling didn't spoil the visit from our out of town guest. I have always said everytime I go somewhere outside my local meta-game I learn something new. Keith is a pretty darn good judge but I was afraid someone might have a bad experience that day.
Glad everyone had a great time and look forward to everyone coming next year. | |
P.I.M.P. | |
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Adkainen
49 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 9:48 AM |
| good to see chaotic warbands still running well :)
great report. | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 10:39 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Ragnarok
I'm glad this incorrect ruling didn't spoil the visit from our out of town guest. I have always said everytime I go somewhere outside my local meta-game I learn something new. Keith is a pretty darn good judge but I was afraid someone might have a bad experience that day.
Glad everyone had a great time and look forward to everyone coming next year.
It didn't spoil my visit at all. It's a great store, and the local guys are always friendly and highly entertaining [)] Keith did a great job judging and made the best call he could on something that everyone had a different opinion on and wasn't covered explicitly in any clarifications. The only thing I was really disappointed about was that the Bling Brothers didn't make an appearance! | | | |
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Ragnarok
Sneak
91 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 11:23 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by johnny.quest
It didn't spoil my visit at all. It's a great store, and the local guys are always friendly and highly entertaining [)] Keith did a great job judging and made the best call he could on something that everyone had a different opinion on and wasn't covered explicitly in any clarifications. The only thing I was really disappointed about was that the Bling Brothers didn't make an appearance!
LOL I just got so wrapped up in playing I didn't get the bling out and Tony went home after the second round (that was who you were supposed to play) because of a really crappy presentation of why his D20 wasn't legal. | |
P.I.M.P. | |
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neilasaurus
Sneak
134 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 7:00 PM |
| | Hrm, I had the specific instance of trying to Pushback a Dying frenzied berserker ruled against me the opposite way. The reasoning was both effects were on the FB, so therefore the FB chose order of resolution. I think I won this one and it wasn't for a rated tournament anyway. | |
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johnny.quest
Underboss
1366 Posts
| | 05/22/2006 8:28 PM |
| | Actually, the pushback and death strike interaction is covered specifically on Guy's page. | | | |
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