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Subject: Archmage in MA: My report from the (upper) middle

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PatEllis15
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05/30/2006 2:29 PM  
This is going to be a long post. Consider yourself warned!

Let me start by saying that I had a great time on Saturday, and that I continue to LOVE THIS GAME. That said, I'm in a difficult position. I'm not sure I should continue to push to be competitive in Constructed. It call comes down to time... Still, I give that more thought later! All the same, time played a VERY important part in the lead up, and AT my qualifier.

Nearly 2 months ago, I was excited to go down to the 3rd New England Open. As many have often heard me complain, I did not have sufficient time to practice with a "modern" tier 1 band. In the end, I brought 2, a CE beater band, and a backup, Archmage band. During the drive down, I was encouraging my friend, Striderlotr, to play his GAS band, as that was the one he was most familiar with. I realized when I arrived that I should heed my own advice. I grabbed my Archmage and went 4-1, finihsing in 3rd place.

I was frankly a little stunned. I had written my favorite piece off with the move to smaller maps, and 8 figures. I was happy to once again be talking about the AM. A few weeks later Derry asked me for some input on Archmage play for the "Secrets of the Champions" articles, and the snowball effect began... Soon it felt as if EVERYONE knew that I was going to be playing an AM at the MA qualifier. The fact was I hadn't made up my mind.

I toyed around with some ranged bands, and was getting set to do some tests with AoM and X when the floods hit. NH got 12 inches of rain in 48 hours, and I found myself, not on vassal, but pumping my basement.

10 days lost all told, and I found myself without a band ready for our event! So, back to the AM! Tried had used the AM with Rikka, and I had corresponded with him about that choice. I've personally had terrible luck with Rikka. I have not once ever won initiatve after using Waylay, and she had made her morale save far less than her level 5 should allow her too!

Though I had had success with the 1/2 Ogre and 10 activations, I was uncomfortable with how vulnerable the Ogre was, and how limited he could be in certain matchups. So, I began to looks at Rikka and the Celestial Pegasus. A week ago, I was intending to pair the AM with the Pegasus, and was playing when I could with that build.

Then, last Thursday after I had tried a version with Rikka (who once again waylayed, and I lost initiative...), Robdaman mentioned that he wondered how the AM would be with Xen Drik Champs. I immediatley pulled open Bifur, and built threw one in, and then realized I could get away with two!

I looked at the build closely: The Champs have conceal, NICE! Magic ranged attack (higher on the first shot than the GCR's), NICE! Fast, Spell Resistance, can move and hit for 15 dmg... NICE!!!!!

Having 2 blocker hitters was better than one. They required a total of 50 damage for both of them to make MC, better than either of the other 3 options, and with a higher level than the other 3, at least one of them was likely to stick around. There is nothing like redundancy to help eliminate a single bad die roll.

So, I brought the following to Milford:

Archmage
Inspiring Marshall
Xen'drik Champ x2
GCR
Timber Wolf
Devis
Xeph Warrior
Xeph Warrior

King Road.

Map: Does anything need to be said about the Kings Road? There is no better map for the Archmage. I was also comforted by the fact that I had played all 5 of my NE Open games on the Dragonshrine, which I figured would be seen a fair bit. Of course the other map likely to be seen would be the Drow outpost. That was fine as well. Good lines of sight, and the pit doesn't hurt the AM to much, and in fact could help him in certain cases.

I felt cautiously optimistic heading into the event:

I arrived about 30 minutes prior to start, and got my band registered. Not surprising most of the big players had brought LG bands, and that made me happy. I was more than content to go after Marut's, Kord, and Quoatl's till the cows came home. I was more nervous about GAS showing up, and to a certain degree 3 or 4 x HH and dual HGB. I knew though that if I could win my first two matches, I'd likely be seeing more and more LG...

Round 1: Roger from CT

Roger was playing CE Beaters: Eye x2, Ogre Ravager, Champ, Drummer, Quagoth, filler.

I won Map initiative, and Roger began to get very nervous. He commented that mine was the band he was most nervous about playing. This is something I've observed for a while now. People don't generally practice against the Archmage, so even when they have a "neutral" matchup, they get nervous.

I set up on the Side B of King Road (the side near the graves). Roger made an early mistake placing the Ogre Ravager in the top woods section, but visible down to the space near my start area. My GCR jumped at the chance, and pinged him for 10 damage, he hit twice more in the next rounds, and in the end, the Ravager was killed before it was ever able to engage with a single figure.

I move one Xen Drik toward the top, and kept one down below. I was able to get teh AM up and put a sword onto one Eye, and the Champ as there were sitting in the joint Victory area. next Round, I won init, and moved the archmage down toward the bottom after firing an EAA into the eye. In previous games I've had a hard time moving fast enough to let the swords do their work (particularly if the targets make their morale saves), so I thought teh extra damage would take a round or two off his life expectancy...

Roger responded by moving the sworded eye after teh Champ on top (great!), this meant that he would activate 3 times before he'd ever swing at the Archmage. 45 damage, plus my 20 from the acid arrow meant he was pretty much a non-factor. He did take out the Xen Drik, but never made it back into combat.

I had the IM and Archmage 2 squares apart down at the bottom of the map, and the eye, and champ moved up to base them. Roger won init, but then couldn't do the damage he needed. He hit the AM once, but missed conceal, and then hit the IM once, but he passed morale, and then missed with the follow up. I was able to move both figures out of dodge, and with the swords doing their thing the combination of the Champ, eye, Ravager and tile points, I was able to secure the win.

1-0

I knew if I could get one more round as a win, I'd start to see all those juicy LG bands...

Round 2: Kent from NH

Kent plays with the guys from my local store. They have generally played a more casual game, though some of them have started to take things more seriously, and come on down to the NE opens. This however, was Kent's first taste of the tough tournament competition.

His band: HGB, Eye, Orc Champ, Druid, Orc Warrior filler.

I was nervous looking at his band... the HGB can chase the AM pretty effectively, but I knew I'd be in solid shape if I had my map. We rolled, I lost. He rolls out his Hellspike map....

OUCH! My GCR and Xen Drik's and nerfed, and I've only played on this map once or twice.

He wins side set up and selected the side that defends the lava Victory area.

I get a small break when he moved the HGB over with the Druid to smash my wolf that is on the victory area filled with difficult terrain. This allows my GCR to get a narrow LOS to him, and do 30 damage to him in turn 1 and 2. However, Kent had set up the eye, and Champ in the forward set up area, and crashed my pocked quickly near the AM. At the start of round 2, I had the IM based,a nd the AM with little room to maneuver. I won initiative, and got swords off onto both of them, and then utilized the GMA to get out of dodge. Kent decided to keep both hitters local and clean up devis, the Xeph's and the IM which was fine for me. I was able to reposition with the AM down near the giant, deep on the difficult terrain with the Xen Drik's positioned to move in for 15 dmg hits if he came after me. I'd left the GCR where he was knowing that the HGB would come after teh Archmage, and leave me an opportunity for my 10 dmg ranged attacks.

It was here in the middle that I lost the game, though I didn't know it at the time. I was REALLY rushing, because I was afraid that the eye and champ HAD to die for me to win, and if I played cautiously, there wouldn't be enough rounds. WRONG!

I had killed the druid off with an acid arrow, and a hit from a Xen Drik, hoping that a routing Champ wouldn't be able to see the eye. That is exactly what happened, the Champ failed his MC, and moved past the smoke. With the Druid dead, he was out of command. The eye eventually tried to get back into combat, but was so far gone, that he died before doing anything beyond devis, and the IM.

I was up on points, but the HGB remained. He moved in and based me, I moved away, and he hit me, but I made MC. Without my blockers, the HGB was able to give chance and rebase me. He had made his morale check, but was down to 40 H.P's. It was time for a last inititive. If he won, chances are, game was OVER. If I won... maybe. We rolled, I won! 20 seconds later: "TIME!" OK, we have to finish the round. 40 H.P's left, that was more damage than I could do in two activations though... 2 hits from a GCR and what? My acid arrows were gone, and a Xen Drik could only do 15 after moving... SO, the Archmage made to move... He hit! He Passed conceal! I'm squished! With just one Xen Drik and the GCR left, he might not have had 200 points, but he was pretty close.

The reality was, my quick play in the middle gave us that extra round. How was I to have known!

Kent played well, but I knew that had this game been on the kings road (where the AM could have moved away so easily), I'd have won. Alas! There is a reason we roll for map init!

1-1.



Round 3: Joe Creighton.
Well, despite going 1-1 I got my wish, and LG band! Joe was fielding: Justiacators x2, Quoatl, Aramil, Dwarf Artificer MAA?

Joe was pretty disappointd in the matchup, and was convinced he was going to loose if I won my map. We did.

I again split my squad, with most going down toward the bottom of the map (near the grave victory area), but placed my wolf, and Xeph up at the top. A justicator came down, and I was able to put a sword on him. Next step, banish the quoatl, and then move to the top where I get my other sword onto the other Justictor. With the first justicator basing both Xen Drik's, I won 3rd round init. THis meant that I was able to move both of them, and attack the justicator doing 30 damage. It also meant that if he moved the justicator away to chase the AM, both could take AoO against him for another potential 30 damage. He decided to stay where he was and forced morale on one Xen Drik but he passed his Morale check. The other justicator was able to track the AM down, and forced a morale check. Here was the one screw up of the day. In all my time playing the AM, I have never had an opportunity to roll between a 6-9 for the Archmage's Morale check while out of LOS, and more than 6 squares from the IM. I believed that the AM get the IM's commander rating, and the judge agreed with me. The key in the definition is the use of the word "without". It sounded to me that if there was a commander on the board, he could use it. Guy has since clarificed that the AM must be in command by the IM to get the commander rating.

Now, that said, the AM was more than 16 squares from teh exit, so he would have gotten another crack at it, and the Quoatl was gone, and both Justicator's had swords on them. I don't think it would have impacted the match.

So, at that point, the AM was able to fly away, and hit the Justicator with a EMM, and things wrapped up pretty quickly.

2-1

Round 4: Helmed Horrors

I'm afraid I can't remember my 4th round opponents name. He was running standard 3x HH, Rak, Darkmoon monk, and 3 Kobolds. He won map init, and selected the Drow outpost.

I was able to remove all 3 Kobolds on turn 1, and get tile points, which put me in a good position. My plan was to get a sword onto two of the HH, and ignore the other one. Collect 5 rounds of tile points, and I'd be fine.

Turn 2 starts with me doing just that, 2 swords, and two pieces now on the bridge, with my other xeph going around back to the upper victory area. The unsworded HH and one of the sworded onces chance the AM, and both base him, but cannot attack. The Xen Drik's move in doing damage to the sworded HH, making sure that he will die by the end of the match. I fortunatley win init on turn 3, and take the two AoO and then D-Door away to the far side of the map (near his start area). My opponent makes a mistake of not gettign the Rak away from the AM, and during turn 4, I'm able to move within 6 for a banishment. He fails his save, but I remind him of his spell resistance... (um...) I failed it.... GAH! WAIT! Spell Penetration, I roll again, and pass! I've gotten 4 rounds of tile points, so now it is just a matter of time. THe 2 HH's drop, and I win on points.

3-1.

OK, so now I'm feeling pretty good... I know that 2 more wins will mean I qualify, and I also know that I should start seeing more LG... It was not to be in round 5!

Round 5 Roger and the Hodge Podge

This match had me face up with Roger from Maine. His band was: Orog (orc Savage Minions), Chrall, HH, Deurgar Champ, Kobold Solider, Goblins...

We roll for map init, and he wins: Broken demongate. Bleh! I've never played on this map. I've seen Arcane balista's use it though, so I know I have some good LOS opportunities.

Roger knew what to do. I'm not sure if he'd practiced against AM or not, but he had a plan, stuck with it, and it worked. He moved the Chrall forward, and kept everyone 1 square away, and 1 square back. I gained first round tile points, which put me up, and I had a gamble, that I thought would hand me the game. One xen Drik popped around the corner and hit the Chrall for 5 dmg. I then use my quick cast to double acid arrow the Chrall. At that point, the Orog hadn't moved, so it was out of command. If it fails, it's off the board, and I'm up by 43 points, maybe more (Chrall, tile, and maybe some goblins). Alas, it makes its save. The rest is a blur. He advanced with everone behind the chrall. I eventually get a sword on the HH on turn 3, but here my old fears of not having enough rounds come true. All but one of the hits on the AM are the result of AoO. On my map, they don't happen. Eventually I'm left with the AM and the IM. I just can't kill anything important though. the HH ends the game with 30 H.P., but I can't get the Orog, or deurgar. He has bunches of VP, and I have about 2/3's as many. That doesn't overcome all the losses I've had.

I was thoroughly beated. I do think my map would have made a big difference, but there isn't much I can do about that one roll. I'm not certain that I couldn't have played any differently. Perhaps savings the quick cast, would have allowed me to get a sword onto the deurgar AND the HH, but I dunno....


3-2

Round 6 Zoons
Chris was running: Aspect of Kord, Quoatl, Sword of Heironeous, Aramil, Warforged bodyguard.

I'd met Chris as the last NE Open, but we hadn't had a chance to play. I was pretty down heading into this final round, knowing that I had to win, but that lots of other things had to fall into place for me to make top 4 with a 4-2 record.

We rolled off for map, and I won. I was able to secure first turn tile point,and positioned one Xen Drik near the top of the middle forest area and the other underneath. Chris made a strong play advancing the aspect of Kord up to smash the xen drik when he won Round 2 init. He hit, but failed the conceal roll. Then, he decided to have the bodyguard engage the xeph and wolf on the vicotyr area, rather than move him over to protect Kord. This let me us the (just missed) Xen Drik to take a step back, and then move forward to score 15 damage on Kord. Perfect! Now he could be banished. I moved the AM up to the "difficult" stone, successfully banished Kord. I decided to hold off on my quick cast, and stood my ground on the rock.

Chris then advanced the Quoatl who successfully poised the Archmage. But, that was the alst of the wins for Chris, I won init, and back off into the forest where Devis could heal me, and I double cast the two mordy swords onto the Quoatl. It was a time game from there. Soon, Aramil was dead, and with vicotry points racking up, the game was mine.

So, I finished 4-2, and with tiebreakers, I was RIGHT in the middle of the pack (I finished 8th overall, and 5th out of 12? 4-2 players).

I'm not sure there is anything I could have truly done differently in my two losses to have assured myself of victory. I'd love a chance to replay those two games on MY map, and see what could have happened.

All in all, I was pleased with my play and with my band. The reality is that EVERY band has a bad matchup. With the AM, it appears that it may come down more to map than anything else.

My thanks to TJ's for hosting another terrific event. I'm a little sad that we couldn't have had ONE extra person show up, as I'm certain that at 4-2, I'd have been able to finish up 5-2, and stood a MUCH better chance of being in the top 4.

Pat E

"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w

Ack
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05/30/2006 4:34 PM  
Were the Helmed's repainted? if so, it was Runelord. It wasnt me.. I never faced you (thankfully). Your band is why single titan bands scare me.

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PatEllis15
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05/30/2006 4:42 PM  
quote:
Were the Helmed's repainted? if so, it was Runelord. It wasnt me.. I never faced you (thankfully). Your band is why single titan bands scare me.


It wasn't... I'd remember Matt! He painted my Archmage afterall...

Pat E

"Games evolve. Otherwise we'd still be pushing rocks around the dirt. What do you think the cavemen said when some dude showed up with sticks?" - Chairman7w

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05/30/2006 4:53 PM  
Thanks for the report

I really enjoy playing archmage because anyone can try not to roll a 1 with a Marut attack... but archmage makes you think

xendrick champs are quite interesting and seemed to work well

So close... [:)]

PS. This is what the alphabet would look like if Q and R were removed

hardinjmm:
Frost-Bitten, there's more to life (and DDM) than LG!

Frost-Bitten:
More to life than LG... that is like saying there is more to Lucky Charms than the marshmallows!!!!!!!!

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05/30/2006 5:23 PM  
Nice report, really glad to see the insight into Archmage players. Helps to try to figure out ways to counter them, even though you dont see them all the time.

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05/30/2006 5:36 PM  
Thanks for the report Pat. IMO, this game is more fun to play when I just bring a "whatever" band and see how I do. But I can't do that at qualifier time. So I feel your pain.

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05/30/2006 5:48 PM  
Just a few quick comments - from one AMer to another.

when I saw you playing the Xens on Vassal, I was immediately intrigued. I liked the idea, but was immediately worried that you might lose hitting power vs HGBs, and that losing the second flyer on your home map might be pretty limiting tactically. As you have pointed out, I prefer 10 acts to 9 in AM bands, and I think this can be an important factor in strategy.

Just one point about Rikka. You suggested that you always lose init when you waylay. I wanted to point out that when I play Rikka, I use her as a hit and run threat way more than a blocker. In the forest, she is awesome with the hit and run tactics. (I can see Xen being used similarly). She is no good off the board, so I almost always "waylay" first turn (basically using Rikka as a late-placed scout, once I can count out how far my opponent can actually move on round 1). On King's road, she typically kills the opposing tile grabber and retreats. (usually I have a xeph move into place beside her, so that I do gain tile points and I am typically up on points after round 1.)

I very rarely lose Rikka, although she does irritate me with her propensity to role "1"s on otherwise sure kills. [:)]

Still, I will likely playtest the Xens, as the band does intrigue me mightily...



Let it be.

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05/30/2006 8:54 PM  
Well, I for one am sold on the Xen Drik Champ's. With Rikka's DR it will take 2 swings to cause a MC, and 3 to kill her, it takes a swing on each Xen Drik to cause Morale, but then one more on each to kill it. The Champs will have 2 chances to pass morale rather than 1, and with conceal, your now looking at 5 successful swings to kill them out right. Additionally they have a better AC... Overall, they are far more survivable against a titan than Rikka.

Of course their damage out put is different. Move and strike, in the forest terrain, it works great, on other maps, you have to be a bit more prudent with their use.

I love the fact that I don't sacrifice much in the way of ranged attacks, and can keep them back to pepper my enemey if I need to.

Frankly, I don't think there is anything that pairs up better with the AM on the Kings Road. So, I suppose is Rikka that much better on alternate maps?

I really don't think she'd have made a difference against Kent. Against Roger? Hmmm... tough one. Having another hitter could have worked well. But likely Rikka gets swarmed and taken down by the mass of bad guys by the end of her 2nd round of engagement. I don't think it would have mattered.

Then again, I failed to qualify with them, and you DID qualify with Rikka. Hrm... Give em a spin and let me know what you think.

Pat E

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05/30/2006 9:48 PM  
Hey Pat have you thought about maybe splitting the difference between the Xen'driks and Rikka by revisting your old pal the Halfling Ranger? Mainly I ask because I don't have two Xen'driks (only one), but subbing in one Halfling Ranger for a Xen'drik might actually be interesting. Now that scout has been de-nerfed, you essentially have a Rikka-light that could be easily positioned for tile-grabber killing and it brings in some Sacred Watcher hate just for good measure, plus it has better ranged attack bonuses than the champs do. Just an idea that may add to the band's flexibility as well as allow me to play a version of it without forking over more cash to Auggie's to get another Xen'drik, lol.


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05/30/2006 11:54 PM  
Pat,

You're third round opponent was Scott McLean, and you played Joe Creighton in the fourth round. I'm sure they wished they hadn't had to play you in any round.

Pat Lynch

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05/31/2006 12:52 AM  
Nice write up as always Pat. I'm glad the Xen'driks performed well. I was sure they would with their attacks, level and solid cost for what they give you. I'm betting just a little more practice would have helped as I know you didn't get but a day or so practice using them as an option. Still great showing and who knows even I might try out a good old Archmage warband sometime soon.

R~

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05/31/2006 1:31 AM  
Pat, thanks for the writeup and insight. I must admit I was toying with dual Xendrik as well, but haven't had the opportunity (or the balls) to play it.

What really drew me to them were:

Lvl 9 - very high for CG and means they are much likelier to stay the duration than a HOB or Rikka
High ranged atk - Allows you to leverage more of your points to offense while still playing keep away. With Rikka or HOB, you need to be engaged in melee to effect dmg against your opponent, which is serving up some eventual points to your opponent. Being able to still do dmg without committing to melee combat is a big sell for an AM band to me
45 hp - Means 2 hits from a HGB to kill each one. So in that sense, the Xens might as well have as many hp as a Goliath Barb or an 80 hp fig. That's against an HGB heavy meta (which apparently no longer exists, but oh well); 45 hp also means the Xen can survive one hit from the 20 dmg hitters in the mirror match (Rikka and HOB) and not have to take a morale check; and as Pat points out, it takes 50 dmg to morale check both
Conceal 6 - Effective for foiling the hitters of other warbands (except Marut and HH) on occasion. This is just gravy and the 25% miss chance should come in handy during the course of a tournament.
15 dmg hit - Not as good as a HOB or Rikka, and more situational (having to move and getting it only on one attack), but 30 dmg total from these guys is alot for that critical last dmg to kill a unit or force the rout
Magic dmg - While the triple GCR+HOB build does great dmg against dual HGBs, against a more diverse field of DR 5 figures (Marut, Justice Archon, and Chraal), the Xens are better because they let you dmg the enemy at range, unlike the GCRs, which are ineffectual in those matchups
+14/+9 ranged to hit and +13/+8 melee to hit - Higher attack bonuses are good against the heavy Lawful meta

I don't think the Xens are overwhelmingly better, which is why great players like Tried have chosen to play Rikka builds even though they are aware of the dual Xen builds. But I do think the dual Xens offer a helluva lot to an AM warband.

I concur with you that had you won map init in your two losses, you likely would have won.

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05/31/2006 11:13 AM  
quote:
Originally posted by lynchpt

Pat,

You're third round opponent was Scott McLean, and you played Joe Creighton in the fourth round. I'm sure they wished they hadn't had to play you in any round.

Pat Lynch



Scott! Right... So, Did I screw up the order?! I thought Joe had the Justicator's...

See what happens when you don't take notes!

Pat E

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06/02/2006 6:36 AM  
congratulations for using the AM this well in the current meta, it´s a pitty you lost the second game against CE-slayer, but an archmage has ifficulties against the fast moving HGB...


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06/02/2006 10:06 AM  
Thanks for the report Pat. It's always good to read the reports of good players, to see what they thought they did well, and to see what they thought they could have done better. Thanks for sharing your insights.

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06/02/2006 1:44 PM  
Pat, you pilot the AM band the best of any I've seen so far. It would appear that the new minis were working, just not at the right moments you needed them. I still think the AM band is a force to be reconded with... if the person knows how to play him.

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06/03/2006 4:54 AM  
Its nice to see the Archmage still out there and being fielded competitively. It just goes to show you that its still possible to see him, and you still must plan out what your band will do if you end up finding yourself across the table from the band. I've been trying to figure out tactics for my CE Quad-hitter band heh. Even been playing through some mock battles.

I'm always glad to see more variety and actually hope the Archmage continually can do well, even if it does take the right player.

Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka
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Forums > Dungeons & Dragons Miniatures > D&D Minis - Tournaments > Archmage in MA: My report from the (upper) middle



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