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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
    
 | | 06/04/2006 10:11 PM |
| My warband:
2 x Steel Predators
4 x Kobold Miners
200pts / 6 activations
Broken Demongate (I really wanted to play on Teleport Temple, but Dual Hill Giants scared me enough to choose against it. Since I did not face any Hill Giants all day, I wish I had taken the teleporters)
Before I list my opponents and results I should say that I have been practicing this group for over 3 months. I initially constructed the group when it appeared that LE was going to dominate the meta, with quad Helmed Horror, triple Chraal, Quad/Quint Duergar Champs or some combination of these. The Steel Predators speed, swift sonic cone for 40 pts, their elemental resistances and blind fighting made them ideal at the time. Their strengths generally outweighed the lack of commander and tendency to rout. The key at that time was to avoid getting into situations where they take 50 damage, which was very possible against other LE groups.
Introduction of the Orc Wardrummer and the Hill Giant Barbarian almost convinced me to scrap the group – with a moral save after only 2 hits and a -4 from the drummer, I thought my group was doomed. Also, lack of a commander meant that I had to learn to play on almost any map because there is little chance of winning map choice. After testing against some CE groups, I was still concerned about dual Hill Giant felt confident that in a match against someone not expecting the predators I would have an advantage of strategy. Other CE groups did not scare me nearly as much because the dual cones, high attack bonuses and pounce ability of the predators allowed me to rout or kill most CE hitters with less than 90 hit points on the round of engagement.
As the meta swung to LG I began preparing for that and found that Couatl plus titan was a problem, but if I coutd get both of these in my cone(s) I should be able to kill them both before routing or dying. I was most concerned about Aspect of Kord and Couatl with bodyguard and healing because I had trouble chewing through all those points, the same with Iron Golem and Aspect of Moradin, especially with Moradin dealing 20 points at range and up to 25 per hit in melee. I knew I would have to be very careful against these groups, but my testing showed it was possible to win against these groups, even if I had to hit and run to stay out of direct combat most of the game.
I decided to stick with the group despite its flaws, which have been written about extensively, thinking it is the last think people will be expecting and that alone should give me an advantage.
The Tournament:
Round One:
Chad Ackerman with Baylor, Ogre Ravager, Tiefling Captain, Cursed Spirit, Orc Wardrummer, and Abyssal Maw filler on Magma Keep.
Chad won map initiative and side. He began with intimidating drumbeat from the wardrummer and started moving his band around one side trying to get to VP area. I advanced around the opposite direction, knowing that with the Baylor and intimidating drumbeat I could not afford to make a mistake.
At the end of round 3 Chad moves his Cursed Spirit into an area that appears to be blocking a corridor from me, but leaves it vulnerable to attack. I take the bait and charge it to start round 4. I kill the cursed spirit, but I have miscalculated and Chad flies his Baylor, with a double move, to the opposite side of my Pred, and double moves his Ravager to flank. I still have my 2nd Pred to go. I move 10 and hit his Baylor and his Ravager with the cone. I get lucky and both miss creatures miss their save taking 40 points. The Ravager then routs and I score and AoO as it runs. I then get an attack, because the roar was a swift cone, and hit for 15 more damage on the Baylor. Chad moves his Tiefling to allow for a rally check next round and we roll initiative.
I win initiative and attack the Baylor with everything I have, forcing moral. He makes all of his saves, from the cone and moral, but takes a bunch of damage from the 2 Preds then proceeds to score 2 hits against my formerly flanked Pred.
The game is pretty much decided with this battle. His Baylor lasts long enough to force moral on one Pred, but it makes its save despite intimidating drumbeat and I finish off the Baylor. Chad concedes at this point as I was within 10 points of 200 and he had nothing left that could deal any significant damage to the Preds. Chad had managed to eliminate or rout all of my Kobolds off the board, but they had scored plenty of points, been useful as blockers, and help keep his group down to only 30 points. My dice were lucky this game, as one failed save and I might have been forced to battle my own Predator. I thought the Baylor/Orc Wardrummer was a great idea.
1-0
Game 2:
Chris Pinyan with Aspect of Moradin, Loyal Earth Elemental, Dwarf Artificer, Warfroged Scout, Timber wolf, Sacred Watcher, Gold Dwarf Soldier and Hill Dwarf on Mushroom Cavern.
I was worried about this game because I had played on the mushroom cavern before, but not with the Preds, and for the reasons I stated earlier about Aspect of Moradin. Combine that with Chris being an excellent player and I was in for a battle.
Chris won map, chose his, and side and initiative first round. He sent his wolf to deal with my Kobold VP grabbers at the bottom of the board, and his sacred watcher after the one I had near the top. I maneuvered my Kobolds to get VP as long as possible, but knew it wouldn’t be for more than 2 or 3 rounds at best, while he slowly advanced his AoM and Elemental.
I played conservative with my Preds keeping them will out of reach of a double move from any of his group, but I knew this could not last because he was going to eliminate my fodder and continue to get points with the Warforged Scout – I had to move in and kill something.
I split my Preds and moved one around the bottom to cone his Gold Dwarf and AoM. Rout the dwarf and do 40 to AoM, I then run that Pred back a few spaces. He brings AoM down within melee reach 2, but chooses to use a ranged attack and deals 20 to my Pred. I move my 2nd Pred up to the top to cone his Scout, Sacred Watcher and Elemental, and then attack the elemental and force moral. He makes moral and hits me twice with I killed the scout and watcher and damaged the elemental. He attacks and hit once with his elemental up (the +2 and magic damage from greater magic weapon was a great call).
He wins initiative and swings twice with Moradin, but only his once. My Pred is down 40 and I decide to retreat. His elemental only scores one hit and I am 5 away from moral with this pred. I them take his elemental down to 10 Hp. We are running out of time and the score is nearly even with his VP and the few things I killed/routed.
He wins initiative again and attacks with his elemental. He hits twice and I am 5 away from moral. He wants to move AoM up and throw a hammer, but with cover and melee, I would have an AC of 31 leaving him with 19+ to hit. Instead, he pursues my fleeing Pred and finds a way to single move to within 6 and throw. If he hits it is a moral save. He misses and I go on to kill his Elemental. Time is called and I win on points. I game that was closer then the points showed, and Chris played very well. I was pleased/lucky to come out of that game ahead.
2-0
Round 3:
John Zink (Ruhk69) with Urthok, 2 x Duergar Champ, 2 x Zak Rak, Snig (3 Skirm), Timber Wolf, Miner on Hellspike.
Finally, a LE group – a good match for me.
I actually won initiative, but I chose his map because I thought the open spaces would benefit me and the smoke does not bother my group as much as it does his. My Kobolds did not place themselves very well, 2 on the victory area near his start area and 2 on his victory area farthest from where I wanted them. With all of his extra fodder, I was going to be out activated and my kobolds had little chance of surviving past the first round.
Desperate for making up what quickly looks like it will be VP in his favor I get greedy and double move one of my Preds to his side near my corner victory area. I miscalculated that speed on his Zak Rak, and by the end of the first round I have few Kobolds and one of my Preds is flanked.
John wins initiative and makes his only mistake of the game. He wants to use his Zak Raks true strike before they get coned, but he chooses to split them and attack my lone Pred with his first Zak and my flanked Pred with the other, this is a mistake because he could have potentially done 60 points to the flanked Pred if he attacked it with both and forced a moral. This allows me to take and AoO and move my nonflanked Pred to where it can cone both the Zak and the Duergar flanking the first Pred. They both fail their save and both rout taking AoK from the formerly flanked Pred, leaving them each with 10 pts. I then move that Pred to where he cones the other Duergar who saves and takes only 20 and Urthok who also saves.
In the next round I lose initiative and am forced to make my first moral check, I make it. I manage to rout the injured Duergar and damage Urthok, who makes his moral save. He then rallies one Duergar and one Zak Rak, and brings the uninjured Zak Rak into the battle.
In the next round I win initiative, kill Urthok and Snig eliminating the chance for him to rally anything else. I am forced to make my second moral save, and I make this one as well!
We go another round, I win initiative and eliminate the Zak Rak and Duergar that were injured and start on his final Zak Rak. I quickly take down the last Rak and he concedes. All this took place in about 35 minutes, one of the shortest games I ever played with this group. While it seemed one sided, John played really well and the dice just did not roll as well for his saves as mine did this game. John did go on to win the entire tourney so I can not feel too bad about this.
3-0
Round 4:
Going in to round four I was feeling pretty good. I knew if I won a few more I would be guaranteed a spot, but if I lost I should still have a shot. I did not realize I had been paired down and that this would be the game that would prevent me from making the top 4 because of the tie breaks.
Pat Coyle – Large Silver Dragon, Couatl, Dwarf Artificer, 2 x Man at Arms, other fodder(?) on Mithral Mines.
I know I was in trouble. I had not expected, planned for or prepared to deal with the Silver Dragon and I know those Hit Points, AC, and Couatl were going to prove a huge problem. Here is where I wish I had chosen the Teleport Temple. I won map initiative, but chose his map because it has less rough terrain than the demongate and his fliers would have the advantage.
I will say that Pat was the best player when it came to moving his dragon and Couatl in concert to prevent me from getting a cone on both of them at the same time. He eventually eliminated my Kobolds and began catching up to me in VPs. I had to do something and attacked his dragon. It proved to be too much for me. I coned the Dragon once and did 10 pts. I coned the Couatl and did 10 damage to it. He made all of his saves. I managed to make my paralysis save, but his Dragon managed to force moral on one of my Preds before I could bring both of them into attack position and I failed. I routed and with only one Pred I tried to fight it out and hope for some of the good luck I had been having to return, it did not. My second Pred routed and I conceded. It as brutal, and I am not sure if I could have done anything that would have made a difference.
3-1
Round 5:
I must win this round or I can pack up and go!
Alex Coyle (father then son) with Aspect of Moradin, Iron Golem, Warforged Scout, Aramil, some Man at Arms – other fodder(?), map ?
I won map and chose the Broken Demongate. It was about time I used my own map. I won side and chose side B with the magic circles and healing. I also get excellent Kobold distribution with one on each of my VP areas and 2 on my side where I can use them as roadblocks. Alex seems concerned about my cones and advances slowly with his IG way out in front of his AoM.
I play conservative, I don’t want to get hit my either of his Titans. I allow him to advance into the rough and I run around some of his fodder and get off my first cone on both the IG and the AoM, they both fail save and take 40 each, as well as killing some of his fodder. He did manage to get one RoE off onto a Pred before succumbing to the cone. For some reason he killed one of my Kobolds, the one nearest his start area, but did not even try and go after my 2nd one, it ended up scoring my nearly 100 victory points.
We actually switch sides of the board and he begins scoring VPs but he is way behind and sees I am running rather than engaging. At this point he tries to pursue, but his IG is still out front and I cone both his guys as I run away. The IG takes another 40 and AoM takes 20. I then bring both Preds down on the IG and kill it. One of my Preds takes 20, the other 40 and I run. I might have been able to kill AoM, but with the point lead that I had, why take the chance. I win my second match against an AoM band. Alex was really a great player, he just figured out my strategy too late.
4-1
Round 6:
If I win I will advance, because no one is undefeated at this time, if I lose it goes to tie breaks.
Charles Schroder (CSchroder) with Marut, Couatl, 3xSacred Watcher, Aramil, Mialee, Standard Bearer.
Charles has a great write-up about this, so I will not repeat it. I will say Charles played very well. I had not tested enough against the Standard Bearer and committed my Preds too early. I did not calculate my distances well enough before committing and could only get one cone onto Marut when I thought I could get 2. The plan was to kill the SB and damage Marut with the first, but really hurt it with the second since Couatl was too far away to help. He had a Sacred Watcher in the way of my 2nd Pred, and I could not get far enough around it cone Marut that turn. This allowed him to bring up Couatl and my 2nd cone only did 10 to Marut but routed Couatl. If Couatl had left the board at that time the game may have gone differently. As it was, he rallied and he managed to kill a Pred before I could bring down Marut. After this he played keep away with his big figs and I couldn’t make up the points. It did not help that I missed incorporeal checks 4 times, once with the cone. I only killed one of the 3 Sacred Watchers. The high point of this match for me was the Kobold Miner criting Aramil at the beginning of turn 2 and routing him off the board.
4-2
Go to tie breaks and come out 5th! Ouch!
I have to say that I had a great time. I brought a friend and he played the only Slaads I saw all night. He went 3-3.
We had an amazing time. The staff, store and other players were all great. Congrats to all the winners!
P.S. I am tired of Steel Predators, so they are being retired. For anyone interested in trying out the band, I would not recommend anyone play them at a high level tournament without lots of testing. They are like playing Archmage, very unforgiving of mistakes but with plenty of potential. I do suggest trying them out at a local tourney once in a while. Nothing like seeing the face of the person who brought the LRD, or the triple Chrall band when you take them out.
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| The Great
Choco Monster
Ghendar
Warlord
12482 Posts
The G Spot
| | 06/05/2006 7:07 AM |
| At the last moment before I left for my qualifier I thought about running dual preds. Thought better of it though.
Nice job with them. I love reading reports of how people do well with non standard bands. [:D] | |
WotC - making me wish more and more every day for a return to the TSR days. :(
I fought the snark and the snark won. I'm baaaaaaaaaaack!
Some of my favorite Maxminis quotes
I actually love to be swallowed. - Posted By gss_000 on 09/04/2007 2:32 PM
Could somebody explain Snatch to me? I understand the basics, but not how to enter/use it. - Posted by orcmonk220
G's the man. - Posted By greyhaze on 11/11/2008 8:58 AM | |
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tundrin
Sergeant
419 Posts
Randolph, NJ
| | 06/05/2006 11:32 AM |
| Chris here, thank you for the kind words. I have nto played much, and was using a new band so I think I was overcautious.
I should have based the two preds at the end instead of what I thought at the time was a clever move, staying at my reach 2, which let you run away without Aoo, sometimes reach 2 isnt so great.
Had I done that , then I get one swing if you run, or two if you stay and at MC10, gotta hope one would fail and you were close enough to go off the board.
I compliment all the cat and mouse. Tough on the tie breakers. | |
Champs 2007 Top 16, Team Amish Class of 2007
Seeking Northern NJ DDM'ers - "There can be only one" (I hope not)
Champion of the Doppleganger | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 12:33 PM |
| Hey there! Belated Welcome to the boards!
I didn't play you which I was thankful for! During the first round I heard someone say that there was a Dual Predator warband and I was thinking, hmmm, if I fail just one of those saves from the breath my Couatl would have to make a Morale Check...yipes!
And the tie breakers suck. I had the same record as the 4th and 5th place player in Toronto but came out 6th because of my very first match. So I feel your pain. [)] | |
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CSchroder
Sergeant
415 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 1:28 PM |
| Good job with the the Dual Predators! Like XenoZephyr, I was not looking forward to facing you and your steel kitties. So with us both fighting for a win in the 6th game, it was intense, to say the least. I appreciate your game skill and your sportsmanship--just not your crit on Aramil from that darned Kobold Miner!
I look forward to playing you again on Vassal or GenCon! | |
Charles AKA The Beardless One, Proud Member of Team Amish | |
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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 06/07/2006 1:50 PM |
| Thanks guys. I had a great time. Not sure if I will make it to GenCon this year - we will have to wait and see. I would like to try and get on Vassal, perhaps I will see you there.
Boyce | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 06/08/2006 2:47 PM |
| | nice writeup.. Was a pleasure to meet you, tho I wish we had a chance to play each other. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 06/08/2006 4:54 PM |
| Ack,
Thanks. I am sure your Helmed Horrors would have been a real challenge for my group with all there HPs. Sorry we didn't get a chance to work on that trade, but you left before I could track you down, not that I was ready to give up my beholder yet anyway. | |
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True_Blue
Underboss
2386 Posts
| | 06/08/2006 10:48 PM |
| | Nice write-up. Its nice to see people using different style bands, and its great that you still did pretty well with this band. Good job. | |
Champion of a Knight of Takhisis/Knight of Neraka | |
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Ack
Underboss
1476 Posts
| | 06/08/2006 11:16 PM |
| | sorry about evaporating in the middle of round 6.. I decided that the best thing for my continued sanity was to travel far north and get home to see the wife. | |
Minis... Serious Business
Completed Trades (18 ) | Pending Trades (0)
Ebay seller to Avoid –Fantasy_Quest_Dist
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/09/2006 8:56 PM |
| Boyce,
It was great to meet you and thanks for teaching me a lot that game. You played flawlessly and dominated. The dice didn't matter, you earned it 100%. And I feel your pain on the tiebreaker. I went 4-1 last year there and finished 6th[xx(]!!
Hated the band when I played it, but loved the original plan. | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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Blunt Claymore
Sneak
78 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 1:38 PM |
| | Nice write-up, Perpetual Student. You say at the end that they are "very unforgiving of mistakes but with plenty of potential." You mentioned one particular mistake -- cones not coming from close enough. What are the other major pitfalls of this band? | |
A journey of 1,000 miles starts with a good whooping. | |
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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 3:35 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Blunt Claymore
Nice write-up, Perpetual Student. You say at the end that they are "very unforgiving of mistakes but with plenty of potential." You mentioned one particular mistake -- cones not coming from close enough. What are the other major pitfalls of this band?
I find playing the dual Preds a lot like playing say an Archmage band. You can not just charge in and expect to beat up everything and get 200 points.
The sonic cone is great and will bring many enemies to either a moral check or withing range of being killed by the melee attacks - if not outright killing most fodder and support.
The melee damage being 15 and 10 can add up, but it is not a lot compared to the HP of say dual Hill Giant Barbarians or AoK with bodyguard and healing, etc. The dual HGB is particularly nasty because you are often unable to catch both of them together in order to get the double cone, which is just about the only was to beat them (however, most CE players use intimidating drumbeat as soon as they see what you are playing which, as long as you force moral on them first you have a chance).
While speed 10 is excellent, I have found fliers, especially fast ones like dragons, can outmanuever you on a number of maps.
It is not that the Preds are weak, but you must rally pick your spot to engage, which I guess is true of most bands, but even more important with this one.
Hope this helps answer some of your questions. It is a fun band to play, but after a few months I am ready to try something new. | |
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RobWreck
Warrior
295 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 4:31 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by PerpetualStudent
Hope this helps answer some of your questions. It is a fun band to play, but after a few months I am ready to try something new.
Thank God! You were kicking our butts all over the place every month at the local gameday! [:p] Seriously though, it's a pretty cool band, wish it had done a little better for you in NJ. I still think that you should have stuck with the Teleport Temple... your sonic cone 'drive-by shootings' were really painful. [)]
Rob | |
Champion of Aspect of Pelor
If the Founding Fathers of our country were conservatives, we'd still be colonies of England... | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 5:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
quote:
Originally posted by PerpetualStudent
Hope this helps answer some of your questions. It is a fun band to play, but after a few months I am ready to try something new.
Thank God! You were kicking our butts all over the place every month at the local gameday! [:p] Seriously though, it's a pretty cool band, wish it had done a little better for you in NJ. I still think that you should have stuck with the Teleport Temple... your sonic cone 'drive-by shootings' were really painful. [)]
Rob
I thought it was quite devistating when he was on Hellspike. Blindsight and a huge open map makes it easy to run around to a spot where he can get off both cones on a lot of pieces. I'm also glad to see this retired .... [)] | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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ruhk69
Warrior
205 Posts
| | 06/10/2006 5:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by RobWreck
quote:
Originally posted by PerpetualStudent
Hope this helps answer some of your questions. It is a fun band to play, but after a few months I am ready to try something new.
Thank God! You were kicking our butts all over the place every month at the local gameday! [:p] Seriously though, it's a pretty cool band, wish it had done a little better for you in NJ. I still think that you should have stuck with the Teleport Temple... your sonic cone 'drive-by shootings' were really painful. [)]
Rob
I thought it was quite devistating when he was on Hellspike. Blindsight and a huge open map makes it easy to run around to a spot where he can get off both cones on a lot of pieces. I'm also glad to see this retired .... [)] | |
The Waterboy. Proud member of Team Amish. | |
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Aravis
Underboss
1155 Posts
| | 06/11/2006 12:54 AM |
| | Teleport Temple would have been a bad choice. You couldnt do a Swift Cone and a Swift Teleport in the same turn. | |
Welcome to Eternal Crack...
"Corn is no place for a mighty warrior!"
Champion of the Frost Salamander | |
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PerpetualStudent
Sneak
173 Posts
| | 06/11/2006 1:23 PM |
| | Rob suggested the teleport temple because I had so much practice on it, thought I might see it at the qualifier. I did not think it was the best choice of map, but I knew how to make it work for me, and how many others had trouble playing on it. While you can not teleport and cone, it gives you so much more opportunity to charge and use pounce once the cones are gone that it allows the Preds to take advantage of another of their abilities that many maps render unusable. But it is not the best choice. | |
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Adkainen
49 Posts
| | 06/13/2006 7:40 AM |
| | Great report. I think you went quiete well due to the surprising effect of using a doubble steel predator warband. These kind of warbands are important for the creativity of the game! | |
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