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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
    
USA
 | | 06/05/2006 12:33 PM |
| Sirohk’s Pittsburgh Qualifier Report:
I had a great time and met more of the cool Maxmin’s / Vassal folks:
bshugg (Brad)
SYB (Mike)
millygoat (Jason)
Neidhart (Terry and his son Ryan)
Helzapoppn (Herb)
Lord Raven (Mark)
All the guys from Windsor Ontario
All the local Pittsburgh folks
All of the Cleveland folks
And everyone else I may have forgotten (it was along day)
It was a pleasure meeting everyone and I hope to see all of you again either at GenCon or at future events.
Also, I would like to throw a big BOO-YA to the Phantom of the Attic (TO Jeff) for hosting and running such a top notch Qualifier event. It was very well organized and well judged. I especially liked the water and candy. You could not ask for a better place to hold a Qualifier.
Well, I finished 5-2 and had a very good day. No major errors or mistakes and overall I played well enough to win but lost due to dice rolls. What more can you ask for. Here’s how things went.
My Warband:
Human Blackguard
x2 Chraal
x2 Zakya Rakshasa
x1 Warrior Skeleton
x1 Dire Rat
x1 Timber Wolf
MAP: Dungeon of Blood
Anyone who played against me and can help fill in the any missing details, please feel free to chime in with you thoughts.
FIRST MATCH (vs Holly (Bloodthirsty Mistress) [^])
Opponents WB – Cleric of Lanthanr, Village Priest, Justicator, Gith Monk, Dragon Samurai, x2 Caravan Guards. MAP: Fane of Lolth
Lost map initiative and played on Fane of Lolth. Won side choice and took side A. Used my Chraals to take out commanders and then basically tried stayed away from the Dragon Samurai (great piece, but too slow for the cost). I picked up VP as often as I could and denied Holly getting to any VP areas. I used Zaks to take out Gith Monk who tried to do an end around to get to my HBG. Holly sent her Justicator off after my Wolf tile grabber which basically took him out of the picture. I then used my Dire Rat as the VP getter. Was ahead on points 123-40 when time was called after 5 Rounds. If Holly had used second Justicator in place of the Dragon Samurai, this could have been a tough match. Well played Holly!
Record 1-0 [:)]
SECOND MATCH (vs Jason (millygoat))
Opponents WB – Couatl, Marut, Ballista, Cleric of Yondalla, Jozan Cleric of Pelor, Aramil, Timber Wolf. MAP: Kings Road
Lost map initiative and played on Kings Road. I won side choice and took side A. My plan was pretty simple – take out the Couatl, then CoY, Jozan, and Aramil. It went too well. I set myself up hoping to win initiative in 2nd round and I did. I used Chrall breath weapon on CoY, Jozan, and Aramil who were at the Ballista (but too far from Couatl) and either killed or routed them off board leaving an unmanned Ballista. At the same time I used True Strike on Couatl and routed it also. Jason rolling low helped me out on this. It was just my army versus the Marut, and the unmanned Ballista. Jason used the Marut to fire the Ballista but rolled a 1 to miss my Chraal before I ducked my army into the woods. I stayed out of Ballista LOS and away from Marut and won game 118-20 on points after 5 rounds.
Record 2-0 [:)]
THIRD MATCH (vs Terry (Neidhart) eventual tournament winner)
Opponents WB – Inspiring Marshal, Archmage, x2 Xen’Drik Champions, Devis, Greycloak, Wolf, x2 Xeph Warriors. MAP: Kings Road.
Won map initiative (finally) and played on Dungeon of Blood.
I gotta say I was very nervous playing against Terry AND my first ever match against an Archmage (I gotta practice more). Terry said the same as he was unfamiliar with my map and warband pieces and knew that my warband would be a challenge. Both of us started very slow as we both spent a lot of time working through moves and what each others warbands could do. Both of us were somewhat unfamiliar with our opponents mini's and as a result the 1 hour time limit came quickly in our match. Unfortunately, we only got to play 2 rounds and I lost to him 46-33 on points. I wanted the match to go on as I had just based his AM when time sounded. I was a little disappointed as I thought we had more time to at least get in at least a 3rd round of play. But alas that's the nature of the game and Terry won our match.
Terry’s a great player who looks over all moves and thinks thing out before he does them. I gotta give him kudos for a well played game (and tournament). Way to go Terry!
Terry and I did play out the 3rd round for fun, I won initiative, hit his Archmage who then failed his MC and because he was next to the exit routed off the board. Oh what could have been.
Record 2-1 [:(]
FOURTH MATCH (vs Ben (???))
Opponents WB – x2 Couatl, Marut, Standard Bearer, Cleric of Yondalla, Aramil, Timber Wolf. MAP: Kings Road
Lost map initiative and played on Kings Road (again). I won side choice and took side A. My plan was pretty simple, again – take out the Couatls, fodder, and then stay away from the Marut. Again I won key initiatives and he failed a morale check on the 1st Couatl. After I had taken care of his other pieces, it was Marut and Couatl versus all of my warband less 1 Zakya. We played 3 rounds of him trying to chase down my HBG to get my Chraals but he could not do it before time ran out (he did manage to get my other Zakya to make it close). We played 5 rounds and I was ahead on points 144-92.
Record 3-1 [:D]
FIFTH MATCH (vs Ryan (Neidhart’s (Terry) son))
Opponents WB – Young Master, x4 Gith Monk, Aramil, Jozan, Man at Arms. MAP: Dragon Shrine.
Won map initiative and played on Dungeon of Blood. A fairly quick match as Ryan had some very bad dice rolls. First things first. We both moved up in round one. I won initiative and all 4 of his monks and the Young Master were in Chraal breath weapon range. I moved up, based the YM, and let loose with both BW’s. Out of 10 saving throws I think he made only 3 of the (1 by YM). 2 of 3 of his monks made MC, but one routed to exit. He sent his YM off to rally the routed monk, and I pounced on the other 2 monks as they tried to get to my HBG. I took the 2 monks out and Ryan conceded in the 3rd round with points at 119-13.
Ryan – great playing and meeting you! Keep up the good work and keep practicing. It would be great to one day see you whoop your dad and make it to the finals instead of him.
Record 4-1 [:D]
SIXTH MATCH (vs Herb (Helzapoppn))
Opponents WB – Human Blackguard, x2 Duergar Champions, x2 Zakya Rakshasa,
x1 Fiendish Dire Weazel, , x1 Goblin Skirmisher, x1 Timber Wolf. MAP: Dragon Shrine.
Won map initiative and played on Dungeon of Blood. A low scoring 4 round affair that I won by the skin of my teeth on points 62-52. I tied up one of his Zakya’s (who was out of command the entire battle) with a Chrall (who missed on 6 straight rolls that if any had hit, I could have caused a MC and possible rout). I killed his other Zak, got some tile points, and killed some fodder to account for the winning margin.
Herb - great game and I look forward to playing you again sometime.
Record 5-1. [:D]
SEVENTH MATCH (vs Jushua (???))
Opponents WB – x2 Eye of Gruumsh, Orc Champion, Orc Wardrummer, Umber Hulk, x2 Quagoth Slave, Hyena. MAP: Teleport Temple.
Won map initiative and played on Dungeon of Blood. I could have won this match, but alas the dice did not treat me well here. Round 1 we moved to get positioning and VP’s. Round 2 – engagement! We both attacked each other doing damage. One of my Zakya’s was hit by the OC and an EoG, MC time. I needed a 3 or more on the d20 with Tyranical Morale from my HBG and guess what, I rolled a 1. Bye bye Zakya. Now down a hitter I really needed one of his EoG’s or Orc Champ to fail a MC – it did not happen. Add to that all of his hitters made their saves versus my Chraal’s breath weapons, so even further bad luck for me. I eventually took out both EoG’s having to work through all of there hit points, but by now his Umber Hulk had arrived at the Magic Circle. It now had Magic Weapon and was picking up victory points – oh the inhumanity of it all. Although my Chraal’s did make all of their confusion checks from the UH until they were squashed. The UH took out my last Chraal, with reach none the less so no death burst effect on it, and I was down to HBG and my Timber Wolf who basing the Orc War Drummer. His Orc Champ ran off to the OWD and with time waning down (about 5 minutes left) there was no way I would catch him, defeat his UH, or score enough VP’s to be able to win. I faced defeat and conceded at the end of the 4th round with Joshua leading in points 179-130. That stupid Orc Wardrummer! I’m beginning to really dislike (hate) that thing.
Well played Joshua! Great game, very good warband (I really liked the Umber Hulk, just wish I had one myself), and making some seriously clutch d20 rolls.
Record 5-2. [^]
Again, thanks to everyone for making it such a great time at the Pittsburgh qualifier!
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
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XenoZephyr
Underboss
1083 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 12:46 PM |
| | Congrats again Matt! Glad to see an LE warband make it! | |
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CSchroder
Sergeant
415 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 1:18 PM |
| Congrats! I still can't conceive how you guys only got two rounds completed but as long as both parties are happy . . .. Must be the Archmage LOS thing which only makes me detest Archmages more [:D]. May have to be banned like Drider Sorcerer if they keep game play down to 2 rounds [)]
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Charles AKA The Beardless One, Proud Member of Team Amish | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 3:09 PM |
| Matt, nothing really to add about our 6th-round match. Once I realized I was down on points, I made a play for your HBG, but you expertly positioned one Chraal (the one not engaged in the private fight with my Zakya) so my Duergar couldn't base your Blackguard.
Had the fight taken place on the Dragon Shrine (my map) things could have been different...but, given equal Commanders you had an equal chance to get side init and force me onto the Fire Blessing (i.e. useless against Chraals).
Them's the breaks. Good match, well-played, glad to see LE make such a strong showing.
(I thought about a "bragging rights" rematch for 3rd place overall after we both lost our semifinals, but we were both too tired for it so we'll just leave that for the "What if?" bin.)
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Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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bshugg
Underboss
1833 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 3:16 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by CSchroder
Congrats! I still can't conceive how you guys only got two rounds completed but as long as both parties are happy . . .. Must be the Archmage LOS thing which only makes me detest Archmages more [:D]. May have to be banned like Drider Sorcerer if they keep game play down to 2 rounds [)]
I faced the Archmage the following game and we got in 6 rounds before time was finally called. Even then, the game was basically concluded with the Archmage made his save with 10 HP and I missed a swing on devis to clear a final 35% chance swing on him. The 2 round game was an unusual event rather than the standard for both players. | |
Looking for someone to cosponser a midwest DDM event. let me know if your interested!
Check out my brand new blog:
http://bshugg.blogspot.com | |
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Neidhart
Skirmisher
37 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 4:40 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by bshugg
quote:
Originally posted by CSchroder
Congrats! I still can't conceive how you guys only got two rounds completed but as long as both parties are happy . . .. Must be the Archmage LOS thing which only makes me detest Archmages more [:D]. May have to be banned like Drider Sorcerer if they keep game play down to 2 rounds [)]
I faced the Archmage the following game and we got in 6 rounds before time was finally called. Even then, the game was basically concluded with the Archmage made his save with 10 HP and I missed a swing on devis to clear a final 35% chance swing on him. The 2 round game was an unusual event rather than the standard for both players.
Unusual for both Matt and I is very true, it was one of those things. From Matt's post you can see his games all lasted more rounds and besides this one game every one of mine lasted 4 (a conceed) - 7 rounds.
Please don't ban the archmage!!
Terry | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 5:18 PM |
| Archmage ain't the problem...
King's Road is the problem.[B)]
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Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 5:31 PM |
| People said the same thing about Teleport Temple, and I don't see the complaints as much as 2 months ago. In fact I don't see any at all anymore.
I've played Archmage and Death Slaads on King's Road in the last 3 local tournaments, and while some games have gone to the time limit, all had at least 6 and more often 8-10 rounds. | |
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Neidhart
Skirmisher
37 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 5:39 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Helzapoppn
Archmage ain't the problem...
King's Road is the problem.[B)]
Herb, we played that game on the Dungeon of Blood map. All my other games on the King's Road had many rounds to them!
Terry | |
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Helzapoppn
Warrior
258 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 7:23 PM |
| It's not the number of rounds...it's the map itself. King's Road is heavily biased in favor of some bands and against others.
Maybe a minor tweak, such as "Forest squares grant a +4 to AC, but do not count as cover for Melee Attacks"...thus allowing adjacent enemy figures to get an AoO on someone in a Forest square (albeit with the AC bonus for the target).
Idunno. | |
Champion of Iconics & the Apparatus of Kwalish (Constructs with Drivers? Brilliant!)
Dungeons of Dread Called Shot: Yeah, right | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 10:36 PM |
| Speaking as a judge:
A 2 round game is almost certainly a violation of the DCI slow play rules, which urge timely play in a timely manner regardless of complexity of the situation.
Both players are extremely lucky that the judge saw fit not to take any sanctions agaist the players. These could have been as extreme as a dual match loss, which might have put them out of the running for 1st place. (or at least changed their later pairings and tie break percentages.)
Lucky indeed. [:)]
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Let it be. | |
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kgradert13
Sergeant
909 Posts
| | 06/05/2006 11:54 PM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Helzapoppn
It's not the number of rounds...it's the map itself. King's Road is heavily biased in favor of some bands and against others.
Maybe a minor tweak, such as "Forest squares grant a +4 to AC, but do not count as cover for Melee Attacks"...thus allowing adjacent enemy figures to get an AoO on someone in a Forest square (albeit with the AC bonus for the target).
Idunno.
Teleport Temple is heavily in favor of high speed, high damage bands
Broken Demongate favors flyers and small based creatures
etc etc.
It's not the only one. Seriously, I heard the same complaints about Teleport Temple when it was released, and it has completely stopped since about a month after release. It just takes some time to get used to.
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Dagni
Sergeant
870 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 3:05 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Neidhart
Unusual for both Matt and I is very true, it was one of those things. From Matt's post you can see his games all lasted more rounds and besides this one game every one of mine lasted 4 (a conceed) - 7 rounds.
Speaking as a player who, for once, is NOT taking too long in most of my games, it sounds like Matt was taking too long in some of his games. In the 15 games I've played at the last 2 qualifiers, I've had very few games that even went all the way to time. Worst was a 4 round game against Archmage. My less recent and more numerous occassions of games that went extraordinarily few rounds are already known to many.
From Neidhart's report, it sounds like he was probably playing at a reasonable pace, at least in his other games. 5+ rounds in all his other games that went to time isn't all that bad.
Matt had a 2 round game, a 3 round game, and a 4 round game? That's not really appropriate. I've struggled to play at a good pace in the past, but I'll tell you what - the player who's taking a long time can't police himself. When engrossed in a difficult move, it's very hard to estimate how much time one is taking. That's what judges are for. I just want to point out that in most of my games, the opponent never did call a judge over. Often, he should've. I never would've minded, indeed, in some cases I would've welcomed it! Like I said, it's very hard to police one's self.
Twice in recent memory I've faced a player that was slow. Just slow. Neither time did I call over a judge. But, in both cases it was the person's first tourney ever, and in neither case was it a qualifier or championships match. Well, and in one of the events, we didn't really have a judge to call over, anyway.
At the qualifier, I would think that the apropriate thing would've been for one of the players to have called over a judge early on in the game that only got 2 rounds. Likewise, Helzapoppn quite possibly should've called over a judge by halfway through that game.
On the other hand, perhaps the real culprit was, in part, Dungeon of Blood? Neidhart and Helzapoppn, were you guys unfamiliar with the map? I know if I had to play on that map (which I've barely looked at, and never played a game on) I wouldn't play as quickly.
- Dagni | |
Proud member of the GRUUMSH fan club! | |
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Sirohk
Commander
3930 Posts
USA
| | 06/06/2006 7:55 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Dagni
quote:
Originally posted by Neidhart
Unusual for both Matt and I is very true, it was one of those things. From Matt's post you can see his games all lasted more rounds and besides this one game every one of mine lasted 4 (a conceed) - 7 rounds.
Speaking as a player who, for once, is NOT taking too long in most of my games, it sounds like Matt was taking too long in some of his games. In the 15 games I've played at the last 2 qualifiers, I've had very few games that even went all the way to time. Worst was a 4 round game against Archmage. My less recent and more numerous occassions of games that went extraordinarily few rounds are already known to many.
From Neidhart's report, it sounds like he was probably playing at a reasonable pace, at least in his other games. 5+ rounds in all his other games that went to time isn't all that bad.
Matt had a 2 round game, a 3 round game, and a 4 round game? That's not really appropriate. I've struggled to play at a good pace in the past, but I'll tell you what - the player who's taking a long time can't police himself. When engrossed in a difficult move, it's very hard to estimate how much time one is taking. That's what judges are for. I just want to point out that in most of my games, the opponent never did call a judge over. Often, he should've. I never would've minded, indeed, in some cases I would've welcomed it! Like I said, it's very hard to police one's self.
Twice in recent memory I've faced a player that was slow. Just slow. Neither time did I call over a judge. But, in both cases it was the person's first tourney ever, and in neither case was it a qualifier or championships match. Well, and in one of the events, we didn't really have a judge to call over, anyway.
At the qualifier, I would think that the apropriate thing would've been for one of the players to have called over a judge early on in the game that only got 2 rounds. Likewise, Helzapoppn quite possibly should've called over a judge by halfway through that game.
On the other hand, perhaps the real culprit was, in part, Dungeon of Blood? Neidhart and Helzapoppn, were you guys unfamiliar with the map? I know if I had to play on that map (which I've barely looked at, and never played a game on) I wouldn't play as quickly.
- Dagni
I try to play as fast as I can, but I do take time to look over all possible moves (both mine and my opponents), best options for the Chraal's breath weapons (when playing this piece) and how to get there, and take great care to keep the HBG protected.
In the Toronto Qualifier I did not take the time and my opponents last piece, a Marut, based my HBG and he rolled a 20 to kill the HBG & Chraals to win a game with me.
Here is a breakdown of rounds per match. I corrected 2 of them as I had written the report from memory and went back to my notes to check for sure.
Round 1 game - 5 rounds & we were last 2 pieces to move when time was called from getting in a 6th round
Round 2 game - 5 rounds, corrected in above report
Round 3 game - 2 rounds, see below
Round 4 game - 5 rounds
Round 5 game - 3 rounds, Ryan conceded at the end of the 3rd round with a lot of time left
Round 6 game - 4 rounds (corrected in above report), both Herb and I played very cautiously in this mirror match
Round 7 game - 4 rounds, I conceded with a number of minutes left
3 of my 7 games went 5 rounds.
In the 3 & 4 round matches, both were conceded with a fair amount of time left.
In my other 4 round match, both Herb and I played very cautiously and time was called a few pieces left to move before getting in a 5th round.
In my match with Terry:
- We got a slightly late start to our game
- We both took time at the start of our match looking over eachothers cards
- This was my 1st ever match vs an Archmage, so I frequently asked Terry to let me see the card and what spells he had left
- Terry had never played on the Dungeon of Blood
- Terry was unfamiliar with a lot of the pieces in my warband
I do not know where the time went, as Terry stated in his write up the 60 minutes seemed to go much faster then both of us would have thought. From my perspective, I thought we would have had at least another 5-10 minutes of time left. But that was not the case. And as stated in my write up, another round would have benefited me very much. I'm not complaining that we only got 2 rounds in, that's just the way it went and Terry won.
I beleive that everyone that I played on the Dungeon of Blood map (Terry, Ryan, Herb, and Jushua) were very unfamiliar with the map. So that may have contributed to slightly shorter matches in terms of rounds. I know that Terry did take time checking LOS and moves, but he did not in any way take too long, IMO.
Also, prior to my match with Terry I was not keeping track of time. In Toronto the TO announced how much time was left at 30 minutes and at 5 minutes. I asked bshugg about if it was normal or not during tournaments for time to be announced and he said it was usually not done. Therefore, after my match with Terry I started keeping time myself so that I could sort of 'police' myself on how much time I was taking and also keep track of how much time my opponents were taking (a lesson learned). During the whole tournament I do not remember anyone asking me to please go faster, but I believe I did ask someone else, but I'm not sure whom.
In short, I am by no means as skilled a player as are many of the top ranked players, but I do try my very best and I do not in any way try to play slow to win. If I am taking too long to figure out a move I would greatly appreciate and not at all be offended if my opponent asked me to go faster and or called a judge over to point out that I was taking to lonkg to make a move. I will continue to practice practice practice until I am skilled enought to get in 6-7 rounds in 1 hour games. Heck, we only have so much time to play and I'd rather get in more rounds than not to.
Just my $0.02 worth.
Sirohk (Matt)
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Sirohk, the Bard of Heartstone
Knight of the Rahshasa's
And Crusader of the Zakya, Ak'chazar, Naztharune, and Naityan Rakshasa's | |
| 2004 D&D Miniatures Champion
Kiddoc
Underboss
1797 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 8:04 AM |
| quote:
Originally posted by Sirohk
In my match with Terry:
- We got a slightly late start to our game
- We both took time at the start of our match looking over eachothers cards
- This was my 1st ever match vs an Archmage, so I frequently asked Terry to let me see the card and what spells he had left
- Terry had never played on the Dungeon of Blood
- Terry was unfamiliar with a lot of the pieces in my warband
Sirohk (Matt)
Now... just IMAGINE what this game would have been like if you had to place terrain tiles. [)] One round match? Thank god for maps. | |
POST DISCLAIMER: Above post may contain humor. Now with micro scrubbing bubbles. Do not operate heavy machinery. Take with food. Use only as directed. Contents may settle during shipping. No user-servicable parts inside. Void where prohibited. Beware of dog. This side up. Do not fold, spindle, or mutilate. No salt, MSG, or artificial coloring or flavoring added. Actual cash value of this post is 1/100th of a cent. Avoid contact with skin... | |
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Tried
Sergeant
501 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 1:15 PM |
| Just FYI.
The general goal for timely play in any DDM game that goes to time (ie., is not a concession or in which a player is blown out in less) is to complete about 6 rounds, which includes the round that finishes after time has been called.
That basically allows five minutes for setup, 5 x 10-11 minute rounds, and time to get at least an init roll done for teh sixth round before time is called.
Now, this is slightly faster than I normally play, and it seems like Sirokh plays at a pace similar to mine. I think, to be honest, that the only reasonable way to play at this pace is if you really know your warband, and have practiced with it, particulary with respect to the opening moves of any match.
The logic behind the ruling is that each figure is costed assuming it will get an appropriate number of activations. Not permitting those activations by playing too few rounds is the real issue, moreso than other considerations.
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Let it be. | |
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Bluedevyl
Warrior
262 Posts
| | 06/06/2006 1:15 PM |
| | In Matt's defense, I've played a number of games against him, and though it can seem like it from reading his report, his pace of play never struck me as deliberately slow. I do think that he is a much more careful player than I, and, as such, will consider the ramifications of his moves to a much greater degree than I... (and thats probably why he's going to qualify and I'm not [:p]) | |
Champion of Tanis Half-Elven | |
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