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Subject: New Rule addtions to think about

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dmindock
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11/29/2006 7:09 AM  

New Features that should be included

Building of Fleets

Named Characters or items to give bonuses to play (i.e. initiative etc…), ship attributes,
and select types of ships (shuttles, all fighters, specific types of fighters, etc…).   These
character or items should have some kind of cost and should be identified with a specific
ship if applicable.  For example an item like moral bonus that gives a +1 to attack would
not be, however, a Legendary Admiral would be assigned to a ship.

Initiative

Initiative should be broken down to each class of ship with class 1 moving first on both
sides, then class 2, such and so forth.   This would eliminate the problem of fighters
unable to engage class 2 ships when they lose initiative.Â

Smaller class of ships can be moved before their phase if necessary.  For example fighters
moving out of the way of their class 1 mothership so that the mothership can move.

With the inclusion of items which affect imitative, then the player who wins initiative
should chose if they go first or second.

Movement

Capital ships should be able to move less than 90 degrees.  This would make the game
more fun in a non-square grid game like on a star map.

The speed of ships should also be different within a class, so that interceptors are faster
than bombers and the Millennium Falcon is faster than the Imperial Shuttle.

Asteroids and other phenomenon like nebulas should be included.

Combat

As range is unlimited, larger maps disproportionatly favor the destruction of capital ships
over fightes as capital ships are the only thing which can be targeted.  Therefore as a map
grows and it takes fighters several rounds to engage capital ships, then the capital ships
slug it out and are destroyed, just leaving the fighters.

The can be corrected with a maximum range on weapons.

 

 


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Qucalion of Celene
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11/29/2006 11:23 AM  

Some good ideas.  Here's some of my thoughts:

Initiative

You can use a ranking system for a basic initiative bonus system depending on the class of ship and ship type.  You would use the highest ranking officer to give you your bonus.  A Class 1 ship will have nothing less than a Fleet Admiral on board, while a Class 2 might warrant mere Admiral.  Class 3 ships aren't necessarily going to be command ships.  The Millenium Falcon and Palpatine's Shuttle would have a bonus to initiative, but Slave I and Wild Karrde may not.

Just off the top of my head, here's a table:

Base Initiative on Ship Class
Class 1 Ship         +3 Initiative
Class 2 Ship         +2 Initiative
Class 3 Ship         +1 Initiative
Class 4 Ship         +0 Initiative

Initiative Bonus on Ship Type
Starfighter, Ace   +1 Initiatve
Unique                +1 Initiative
Independent        -1 Initiative


You could also have rules for transferring the flag to another ship.  For example:ÂExecutor is about to go down in flames.  The Flag Admiral is transferring his flag to an Imperial Star Destroyer.  A shuttle would have to launch from the Executor (before it loses it's last Hull Point) and land on the Star Destroyer.  Of course during this time there is no initiative bonus, and he becomes a target.

Movement Phase

The movement phase does need rework.  I like the idea of taking turns moving by class.  However, if one player has Class 2 ships and the other doesn't, then this puts us back into the original problem.

The two I personally like best is either taking turns moving two ships OR impulse movement where each player takes turns moving one space at a time.  The second method takes more time, but is more accurate.  

Speed and Turning

I agree that speeds should be different amoung different ships.  If I recall correctly, the A-Wing is the fastest of the rebel starfighters while the B-wing is the slowest.  The X-wing is the most versatile and toughest.  Â

I agree that Capital ships (Class 1 & 2) should be able to move diagnally.  I would think that being the slugs they are, they would only be able to make a half turn rather than a full 90-degree turn.  Using Command Points for moving diagonally would have to be changed so that it could make a full turn rather than a half turn.

Environment

Fighting in different environments would be fun.  Some large areas like nebulae would be as simple as making environment modifiers such as all attacks are made at -1 when adjacent an additional -1 per square distant.

Asteroid fields would be a different matter since asteroids would move indepenently and in random directions.  Here are some ideas:

Placement Phase:
   After both players have set up their fleets, each player takes turns placing an asteroid in the area between the two fleets.  No two asteroids can be placed in the same area or the area adjacent to another asteroid.

Movement Phase:
   After both players have completed their movement, each player will take turns rolling for asteroid movement.  "Up" and "Down" is respective to the player rolling the movement.  "Up" is away from the player and "Down" is toward the player" (same as in theatrical direction).

      Die Roll (d8 )         Direction
              1                     Up
              2                     Up Left
              3                     Up Right
              4                     Left
              5                     Right
              6                     Down Left
              7                     Down Right
              8                     Down
                           
Collisons would be handled during this phase.  If an asteroid enters a square occupied by a ship, that ship will make an "Attack" roll based on the best weapon score currently on their card.  If that roll is 15 or higher, they are able to evade the asteroid.  If multiple asteroids enter a square the ship will have to roll for each asteroid.

If they are unable to evade an asteroid, the other player makes an Attack roll (no bonuses) against the ship in that square.  If the attack hits, it does 5 points of hull damage.  The asteroid takes half the current hull points of the target ship.

Ships may attack asteroids.  They have a defense of 15 and 10 hull points and DR 1.

Also, asteroids may be flipped and have a defense of 10 and 5 hull points.

Asteroid collisions may occur as with ships.  Asteroids may stack in the same square.

Weapon Ranges

For weapon attenuation, the distances would have to be exceedingly great.  Far greater than two end to end maps would give.Â

In the case of long ranges, you would have to determine the attenuation of certain weapons.  "Ballistic" weapons such as missiles would have a limited range as their driving force would expire.  Energy weapons would attenuate over distance resulting in a reduced chance to hit and reduced damage.




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XAos
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12/01/2006 9:37 AM  
Posted By dmindock on 11/29/2006 7:09 AM

Combat

As range is unlimited, larger maps disproportionatly favor the destruction of capital ships
over fightes as capital ships are the only thing which can be targeted.  Therefore as a map
grows and it takes fighters several rounds to engage capital ships, then the capital ships
slug it out and are destroyed, just leaving the fighters.

The can be corrected with a maximum range on weapons.

 

 

Nice point, but you also need to be carefull of the opposite effect.
If you have a large map & a range limit. The capital ships will be gurenteed to survive longer. So the fleet design will change to include more fighters.
e.g. A 300 point fleet "normally" consists of 3 or 4 Venators & 20 fighters.
If you add range limits to increase the survival time of the ships. A Venator could safely launch 20 or more fighters each. So a 300 point fleet drops to 3, 2 or even 1 Venator with the rest of the points as fighters.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.
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West Valley City, Utah

12/01/2006 10:25 AM  
Actually, there should not be a range limit, but say, -1 to damage of the larger ships when their weapons reach a certain distance away.

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Qucalion of Celene
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12/01/2006 2:38 PM  
Starfire is a starship based combat game with everthing from strikefighters to Super Dreadnaught class ships. The rules that it uses in it more basic incarnation uses range limits and decreased damage for energy weapons.

I'll have to dig out my chats now!

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wildmage
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12/11/2006 11:32 AM  
One thread in particular over on the Wizards boards addresses the issue of Starship Battles alternative/advanced rules quite nicely:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=10749393

There is also a very nice and handy set gallery at:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=722627

I am very intersted in hearing from people who have had a chance to try some additional rules how well they work.  I'm especially interested in hearing more about shields for class 1-3 ships, weapon ranges (or damage reductions at long range), and possibly different takes on movement.

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12/11/2006 7:10 PM  
As far as shields are concerned, many of the rebel starfighters had shields. The TIE's, generally, didn't have shields.

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evilmerlin
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12/12/2006 2:59 AM  
Well, the Rebel fighters can have 1 shield point which they can regenerate IF they do not attack(represents the pilot shunting power to the shields). But doing this would make the Rebel fighters significantly tougher and would probably involve a point increase.

Not a good idea to be honest. Rather leave the fighters alone and just give shields to the cap ships.

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12/12/2006 3:38 AM  
I'd like to keep general principles easy. Just adding range and other minor alterations might do it.

I should get my case today, finally :|

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XAos
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12/12/2006 5:28 AM  
Posted By dmindock on 11/29/2006 7:09 AM

New Features that should be included

Initiative

Initiative should be broken down to each class of ship with class 1 moving first on both
sides, then class 2, such and so forth.   This would eliminate the problem of fighters
unable to engage class 2 ships when they lose initiative.Â

Smaller class of ships can be moved before their phase if necessary.  For example fighters
moving out of the way of their class 1 mothership so that the mothership can move.

With the inclusion of items which affect imitative, then the player who wins initiative
should chose if they go first or second.


Some thoughts on this.
high roll choosing who moves first is exactly as random as as high roll moves 2nd.
If the palyer didn't do something "skillfull" to "earn" the initiative roll. Then giving them a choice just slows the game down without rewarding player skill.

If capital ships always move before fighters. Then carriers will get blocked by the fighters they launched the previous turn. Allowing you to move fighters early if you want just  shifts the problem, to those fighters being gimped (buy having to move first even if they won initiative)
Overall this sequence hurts class-1/2 ships to improve class-4 ships and the fighters are already a lot better than the capital ships.

Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything.

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12/12/2006 7:11 AM  
Except class 1 (and I think class 2) ships displace fighters when they move, so this problem is solved by just moving the carrier forward one square (or backward).

That all being said I'm not advocating this system either. Personally I like the option of minimizing the initiative roll by having both sides *alternate* their moves(balanced increments) with the player who lost initiative going first. This is how it is done in BattleTech (classic) and it works VERY well.

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