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Subject: 4e halfling paladin scan

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thewulf
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02/29/2008 9:36 AM  
4e halfling paladin scan









minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/02/2008 7:02 PM  

It might just be the halfling build but it is nice to see the paladin is as useless as it was in 3.5, 3.0, 2.0 and 1.0.

Of all the classes to cut from the 1st players handbook I really would have thought this would have been one of them.


Robert Rosehart
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03/03/2008 11:35 AM  
Pray tell, how is this character useless?

(1) Lay on Hands is incredibly useful in terms of battlefield healing- and it's only a minor action! This paladin is more of a healer than any version before.

(2) Divine Challenge is sickly good. In fact, it's so good that the designers told the crowd that the ability had been toned down between the printing of the char sheets and the convention. Didn't stop multiple paladin players from dominating the field.

(3) Bolstering Strike- attack, gain some temporary hit points! It's Aid on a sword.

(4) On Pain of Death is an AWESOME daily power.

Most people at the convention thought the paladin was almost too good, and that the toning down that had already happened was very warranted.

References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231

minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/03/2008 4:04 PM  

Hit points are still fairly low.

The laying of hands means using up healing surges he could use on himself when he has fewer healing surges than the fighter.

His round by round damage output is pretty low compared to the others.

He seems to have some neat tricks but I'd still much rather play a heavy hitter like the ranger or warlock or a tank like the fighter. I will give you it seems like a tactically interesting character to play but I don't see him going toe to toe with the ranger much less the fighter.

The once a day power is good but it is no better than the other characters have and it is still just once a day.


Robert Rosehart
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03/03/2008 5:43 PM  
He has the second-most hit points of the six characters, only behind the dwarf with the 18 con. His lay on hands is a minor action, meaning he can heal AND he can attack in the same round.

He's definitely a more defensive-minded character, which I think is what the paladin is all about- protecting others and playing the bastion-of-light-guy in battle. He may not be your style of character, but that's okay- you prefer the big damage dealers, which are also fine. A perfectly viable character, I think- far from useless.

References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231

minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/03/2008 6:03 PM  

Perhaps I overstated useless.

I thought using healing surges was a minor action for everyone? Kind of like taking a second wind in Star Wars. If not then being able to heal and attack at the same time is very nice. Less so if it is something everybody can already do.

I think partly I'm not overally impressed with these "defender" types. In most encounters you need the fighter types to be the primary strikers. Buffing and healing goes to the non-front line types.

Mind you as it was pointed out elsewhere these are first level characters and if the ability to buff/heal coming from minor actions or inconjunction with concurrent attacks get powerful enough then this character and the fighter are worth a second look.


Robert Rosehart
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03/04/2008 8:03 AM  
Nope, second wind is a standard action, it spends a surge and you can only do it once per encounter.

Dwarves can take a second wind as a minor action.

Paladins can use lay on hands as a minor action. This is even better than the Dwarf, since lay on hands ignores the second wind mechanic- the paladin can heal the same guy three times in once combat using lay on hands, and that guy can STILL use second wind for himself. Really good stuff.

References: http://www.maxminis.com/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7231

minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/04/2008 3:47 PM  

Well then that is impressive.


Robert Rosehart
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magefire
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03/08/2008 8:34 PM  
Too impressive.  Healing while fighting is the most absurd thing that I've seen about $e.  Sure, why stop to think about your friend on the ground when you can hack at a guy in front of you and toss your friend a healing without even looking.  Weak.

minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/09/2008 5:34 PM  
I'd have to disagree with the last statement. I've been running a SW Saga game lately and the second winds really add to the dynamic nature of combat. There is still strategy about when to use them and the fact the healing doesn't interrupt action means the tension is kept up for everybody. It is a lot more exciting than having one character practically out of the action because he has to hover back and heal that guys having the fun.

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nyjastul69
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03/09/2008 5:42 PM  
Posted By minatoman38 on 03/09/2008 5:34 PM
 It is a lot more exciting than having one character practically out of the action because he has to hover back and heal that guys having the fun.


It would depend on your definition of 'exciting'. 


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minatoman38
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Minaniuonuma-shi, Japan

03/09/2008 7:02 PM  

I've played 3.5 for a few years now and combat has been fun, exciting and dynamic with the current roles. However what I have found is that Star Wars Saga is also fun and dynamic and exciting with the second winds and being able to use them as swift actions so it isn't necessary to take a break and heal in the middle of the action. Or have somebody else have to do it for you.

It isn't that the current isn't dynamic its that in my opinion a new approach would be more exciting. In the way it is done in Saga.

However overall I'm not at all impressed with what I've seen with the 4th edition changes now that I've seen the sample characters. Which is too bad because I was really looking forward to a new edition. Especially one with a simplified approach to things.

It just seems like they've made "I hit something with my sword" a lot more complicated. All these special moves feel like something out a fighting video game. Street fighter, or this Dinosaur King game my son plays.

As for spells I was never a fan of daily spell slots and memorizing certain spells. I mean if you need a spell and it isn't memorized why not just cast it out of the book. You have your book in your backpack. How hard can it be to read  a spell out of the book. Its what they do in the movies and on "Charmed".

So I do like the idea of wizards having at will minor attack options (such as magic missile), at will FX stuff (such as light and detect magic) and daily attacks (Such as Fireball) or daily FX (such as invisibility). I don't like ecounter based powers. They don't work well in Saga (the jedi reloads his Force Slam every time he opens a door and heavily overuses it) and I don't see them working well in D&D.

Overall this seems like a much more complicated game rather than a less complicated one.


Robert Rosehart
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