paradox23
Skirmisher
5 Posts
    
 | | 04/29/2008 11:53 PM |
| | My favorite way to beat Whips is with loads of damage. I find damage to be a pretty effective way of taking them down. | | | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 04/30/2008 7:50 AM |
| Posted By paradox23 on 04/29/2008 11:53 PM
My favorite way to beat Whips is with loads of damage. I find damage to be a pretty effective way of taking them down. That's so yesterday. You need to move up to something cooler.
Dave
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Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3235 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/02/2008 4:42 AM |
| Posted By Vrecknidj on 04/30/2008 7:50 AM Posted By paradox23 on 04/29/2008 11:53 PM
My favorite way to beat Whips is with loads of damage. I find damage to be a pretty effective way of taking them down. That's so yesterday. You need to move up to something cooler. Dave
ROFL,
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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XAos
Underboss
2389 Posts
London
| | 05/08/2008 6:02 AM |
| Posted By SkYlyn3 on 04/23/2008 4:14 PM
... How are they casting at squares they don't see, and more importantly, why?
A line attack is fairly similar to the effect of a Heavy machine gun.
Pleanty of cases in WW-I where HMG's were fired through smoke screens.
But possible the "Forest" (King road) needs amendment to say you can't trace a Line-of-Effect through more than 1 side of forest square.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3235 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/08/2008 6:59 AM |
| Posted By XAos on 05/08/2008 6:02 AM Posted By SkYlyn3 on 04/23/2008 4:14 PM
... How are they casting at squares they don't see, and more importantly, why? A line attack is fairly similar to the effect of a Heavy machine gun. Pleanty of cases in WW-I where HMG's were fired through smoke screens. But possible the "Forest" (King road) needs amendment to say you can't trace a Line-of-Effect through more than 1 side of forest square.
no, I'd rather not see that happening. Would make the entire difference between los and loEffect a bit superfluous IMHO.
Just imagine it in rpg terms like: I shoot a lightning bolt, that way!
Would be lame lightning if it stopped after a bit of underbrush.
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Chad the DragonLord
Skirmisher
17 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 05/08/2008 7:41 AM |
| This band can beat whips and the rest of the field too: Eternal Blade x2 Wulfgar on Warhorse Merchant Guard x2 Farmer x2 Map: Hellspike I'm 2-0 against whip bands with it - I defeated 5 whips and shadow dragon on Caves of Chaos with it and defeated 7 whips on King's Road with it. The double blades grant you a +4 defense boost for 3 rounds and still allow you to buff all three hitters to 30 damage swings, and you have moment of perfect mind to thwart two attacks aw well. Throw in two guards to absorb a bolt or two and you're golden. Stay back and then use bounding assault and a wulfgar champion power to drop a whip near the end of round. Then look for a good chance to line multiple whips so that it only takes one more swing to kill one. If you can absorb some early shots with guards and/or cause them to miss with MPM or +4 defense then you should be able to cut down 3 whips or so early. once their numbers are reduced the odds of them hitting go down. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
561 - 228 - 5 | |
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Chad the DragonLord
Skirmisher
17 Posts
Southeast PA
| | 05/08/2008 7:43 AM |
| | Also, forgot to mention this too - keep your blades based with a whip so when they get bloodied they get another free swing from glory in battle. | |
Member of Team Amish
3rd Place in 2007 Constructed World Championship
My combined DDM Skirmish record of all games ever played in all formats.
561 - 228 - 5 | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 05/08/2008 12:00 PM |
| A while back Tried said that he thought Whips were on their way out, that other, tougher bands had filled the top spots.
I'm not convinced, though, that Whips can't make it to a top 4 spot. The problem then becomes how to beat bands like Chad's once you get to the top 4 with a Whip band and have to face nothing but EB bands buffed up to kill you.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1887 Posts
Portland OR
| | 05/08/2008 5:28 PM |
| | Unhallowed will have the solution i'm sure... I just wish there didn't need to be a solution in the first place... c'mon... | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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XAos
Underboss
2389 Posts
London
| | 05/09/2008 9:47 AM |
| Posted By Dordledum on 05/08/2008 6:59 AM
[
Would be lame lightning if it stopped after a bit of underbrush.
It's not "a bit of underbrush" It's a Tree trunk, could be several tree trunks is your lighting bolt is aimed through 12 forest squares. That sounds not at all realistic.
However 7xWhips is certainly not a Tier-1 warband. It's helplessness against anything with immunity lightning (Cerebrolith) define it as at best Tier-2.
And I would expect to crush it with 3 LShD. | |
Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9934 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/09/2008 11:30 PM |
| Posted By XAos on 05/09/2008 9:47 AM Posted By Dordledum on 05/08/2008 6:59 AM
[
Would be lame lightning if it stopped after a bit of underbrush.
It's not "a bit of underbrush" It's a Tree trunk, could be several tree trunks is your lighting bolt is aimed through 12 forest squares. That sounds not at all realistic. However 7xWhips is certainly not a Tier-1 warband. It's helplessness against anything with immunity lightning (Cerebrolith) define it as at best Tier-2. And I would expect to crush it with 3 LShD.
You should play 3 LShD several times against a good 7-Whip player on Kings Road. You might not find it so easy to crush. | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Kevizoid
Sergeant
373 Posts
Southern California
| | 05/10/2008 9:11 AM |
| Lightning can rip through trees IRL so why is this a problem?
3 LSD can rip up whips very very quickly. 7 whips can rip up 3 LSD very very quickly. They destroy each other in 2 rounds. The matchup isn't all that favorable to either.
Also the cerebrilith match isn't an auto lose. Tried beat someone in Utah running cerebrilith with whips. It's a very difficult matchup however if a really good player. But I doubt many really good players would run cerebrilith so its moot. To beat it, you just kill everything else with your zomghit across the board bolts and get VP while splitting up. | |
SoCal Colluder | |
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Knight of the
Round Table
Thenameless
Warlord
9934 Posts
The Fortress of Solitude
| | 05/10/2008 3:40 PM |
| | Kev, doesn't being on Kings Road most of the time, and winning initiative most of the time tilt this in the Whips' favour? | |
Over 270 successful online DDM trades. | |
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Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/10/2008 8:57 PM |
| I Would have thought it would have given them the edge...
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
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XAos
Underboss
2389 Posts
London
| | 05/11/2008 6:03 AM |
| LShD has longer threat range i.e.; Move+Shadow-Jump+Breath is greater the the whips Move+Line.
So the whips uinitiative doesn't give them an advantage, it just prevents the dragons having achieving a one-sided masacre.
And the forest blocking LoS let the LShD use sneak attack. So 2 hits by breath attacks kill any Kao-Tuo in the cone.
Note; Given the number of different warbands that have been cited as being broken if played on the "Kings road" map.
I think the solution is to ban the Kings road map in the DCI floor rules.
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Don't worry about the current metagame. It doesn't matter if it's ugly, bad, or the best ever. In 2 years time, set rotation will ban everything. | |
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Kevizoid
Sergeant
373 Posts
Southern California
| | 05/15/2008 8:13 AM |
| | Whips are far from broken. The only band that was lololgood on kings road was archmage and he was never "quite" T1 anyways. | |
SoCal Colluder | |
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Dordledum
Commander
3235 Posts
Netherlands
| | 05/15/2008 10:15 AM |
| Posted By Kevizoid on 05/15/2008 8:13 AM
Whips are far from broken. The only band that was lololgood on kings road was archmage and he was never "quite" T1 anyways.
Line-o-rama wasn't bad either on King's Road (Storm +CWWs+ Bralani's),
D.
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Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
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Kevizoid
Sergeant
373 Posts
Southern California
| | 05/15/2008 3:07 PM |
| Well that was when forest itself was broken and you just needed 1 foot in the forrest ;P
That got fixed fast. Line-o-rama is fine but is nowhere near "autowin" on that map. | |
SoCal Colluder | |
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10358 Posts
United States
| | 05/15/2008 4:12 PM |
| Indeed.
At Niles, the person playing Whips lost his map every time except the playoffs. The person playing WWC x2, Wulfgar won his map every time except the playoffs. They played each other twice.
The Whip band won on Magma Keep and lost on King's Road.
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
|
Master of the
Awesome Sauce
Teflon Jeff
Warlord
7507 Posts
Sector 2814
| | 05/16/2008 9:02 AM |
| I'm glad a band like this can be competitive.
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Official Delegate, Wizards of the Coast
Against The Giants Called Shot: Huge Green Dragon
Icons Called Shot: Gargantuan Prismatic Dragon
"Rejoice, for bad things are about to happen." | |
|
Lord_rock
Underboss
1887 Posts
Portland OR
| | 05/16/2008 11:16 AM |
| it's not about it being competitive, it is simply an autowin on kings road vs. Any build that can't close at the beggining of round 2 or target indisciminately without line of sight. I've said it before and I'll say it again: it is worse than the ranged threats on grotto in 1.0...
They don't want to change lines... Fine... Fix the kua-toa themselves. Cap the + to att at 13 so they really have to bunch up to get the really high bonuses, make it vs. Reflex so cover grants a +2 bonus, or reduced line range... These changes would take a bite out of 6-7x whips but many would still use 3-4 and beaters...
Until hen it's line away if you can (and currently you really can't), make sure you have at least one wildmage and 2 bodyguards, and mount up so you can get to em round 2... It is sad that the only way you can beat em is during warband construction or winning map. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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Kevizoid
Sergeant
373 Posts
Southern California
| | 05/16/2008 4:55 PM |
| | THey are FAR from autowin. If you play just a general subpar band and give them easy lines than sure they are pretty much autowin. But it's not the whips fault. | |
SoCal Colluder | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
1887 Posts
Portland OR
| | 05/17/2008 7:03 PM |
| | how about flayer umberhulk??? Non mounted dorns? Any other fits with speed 5 or less? | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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