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relientKitten
Sneak
172 Posts
    
Portland, Oregon
 | | 08/28/2008 6:53 PM |
| Alright, this is my first attempt at a warband, so bear with me.
Greypeak Goblin x4
Merchant Guard x2
Warhorse
Valiant Calvary
Virtuous Charger
Tomebound Arcanist
10 activations, 199 points
My thought process
I like mounted critters, charging in to smash massively. I'd need to get the map choice so I can choose something fairly open (I need to do some map analyzing still).
Merchant Guard on Warhorse stays with the Valiant Calvary and Virtuous Charger, all three of which spend their time charging around the board, smashing massively. Second Merchant Guard stays in the back with the TBA and I have four Goblins, either in a line or two sets of two to increase their attacks with Volley who pick off the fodder as needed, as well as across the board (range of sight is awesome).
I like the idea of having ranged as fodder smashers instead of melee since they tend to be weaker and can't be fed to nasties like Thrall as easily. If I were up against a TBA of my own, the best I can do is spread out my goblins and hope for the best for them, whereas my TBA and riders are all decently covered.
Virtuous Charger and MG/W charge, then Valiant Calvary charges and hopefully connects, pushing 2 so that I can charge once again. Only works if I get initiative and the creature has already activated and noone steps in my way, but I have some options for getting rid of creatures that are in my way (goblins ftw).
What do you knowledgeable folks think?
~rK
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
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Dordledum
Commander
3394 Posts
Netherlands
| | 08/29/2008 12:47 AM |
| I don't know whether I qualify as knowledgeable ;) , but here goes:
Decent warband for casual play, what map were you planning on using?
Warhorse, Merchant Guard, Virtuous Charger and TBA are all (very) good figures. Greypeak goblin archers are expensive for what you get, but the only way to play them is indeed in multiples. Valiant Cavalry is not bad, but not that incredible either.
Staying with your warband idea, I'd exchange the goblins and valiant Cavalry (64 points!) for another warhorse and a better hitter (shadowbane inquisitor/skullcleave warrior come to mind), fill up the remaining points with a few goblin runners (tile grabbers) and elf archers (ranged support), both cheaper and better than the greypeaks. Nevermind you got less than 10 activations in that case, because you get to use the activations you got better.
welcome to the fold btw,
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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relientKitten
Sneak
172 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 08/29/2008 2:40 AM |
| Thanks for the input. ^^
I guess I don't quite understand why Elf Archers would be better than Greypeak Goblin Archers, especially when I have the points for them. For three more points, I get +1 RA and if I have two standing next to each other, +2 more RA, whereas the Elf Archers *have* to move for that +2 bonus. Of course, once one of my Goblins is dead, I lose the bonus as well, so it could be like comparing apples to oranges here. But the Goblins also have slightly more HP and defenses, as well as having their Strategy which could help them get out of a tight spot. Just seems like they're pretty good for a few more points; is there a reason otherwise to take the elves?
I only have one Warhorse atm. :x Also, while I agree that the Valiant Charger doesn't completely shine, the ability to charge with a push of 2 sets up for another set of skirmishes/charges from the other two mounteds next round for extra damage (which is always nice).
What do you mean by tile grabbing? Are you talking about Victory areas?
If I were to drop the Valiant, I'd have to also drop something else in order to have room for the Warhorse and its rider in my group.
I like the Shadowbane Inquisitor; I sadly don't have one of the other meleers that you mentioned. However, for the same stats, better Champion rating, and the ability to bring in something up to 16 points for free for only 5 more points, I like the Mecenary General. Using him to bring in my second Merchant Guard, I'm pushing it as far as points and, even if I were to drop down to two Farmers and two Elf Archers, I'm still at 201. I'd have to lose an activation, which would bring me back down to the normal 10, but it feels like the Valiant Charger does, for quite a bit fewer points total, as well with one critter than the Warhorse and a rider would.
If I need these 'grabbers' that you speak of, I could send in two Iron Defenders as replacements for two of my archers. They're speedier than the Goblin Runners, have higher AC and HP, higher attack values, and that Defender ability is kinda cool if I need to wade into melee with them for a bit.
... I'm actually really enjoying discuss tactics and stuff, even if it is really only with one person so far. ^^
I did notice that I have no Champion, which is a bad thing, it seems. I may have to rework this after all, hmm.
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
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Dordledum
Commander
3394 Posts
Netherlands
| | 08/29/2008 3:04 AM |
| tile grabbers are indeed used to reach victory areas the 1st or 2nd round.
The goblin runner has an effective speed10, using his burst of speed, making him very fast and able to reach almost all VAs in round 1. For only 4 points it's not terrible if you lose him after one or two rounds of tile(victory area) grabbing, giving you a net VP lead of 6 or 16 points (depending on the opponents tilegrabbing as wel of course). Having a ranged attack (how crappy ever) is always a boon as well.
The iron defender is more solid indeed, but you can have 2 goblins for the same point cost, and it's effectively slower for 1 round (which is what counts in the end).
My argument for elves over goblin archers was more because you did not have the points to spare IMHO. 32 points on 4 fragile goblins is a lot to spend on fodder, they do tend to die pretty quick. A few of those points could be invested better in another beater or champion. I'd go for one goblin runner and an elf or 2, which together only adds up to 14 points, leaving 18 points.
Together with the Valiant Cavalry you could exchange it for 50-points of heavier beat-stick (8 activations) or perhaps 42 + another merchant guard (9 acts) or any other variety.
I think having only the valiant cavalry and virtuous charger as beaters next to the TBA is a bit light-weight.
The Merc General is a solid choice for the 42 points quoted above, maybe with a human sellsword as cohort (10 activations again). The possible combinations are legion...
D. | |
Member of the Bearded Devils
Champion of the Huge Spider (WotDQ 46/60), A New Umber Hulk (DoDe 57/60), and the Orog Fighter! | |
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rar
Skirmisher
26 Posts
| | 08/29/2008 5:40 AM |
| Regarding elf archer vs. graypeaks:
Four elf archers instead of four graypeaks frees up 12 pts. 12 pts can make a huge difference in upgrading a beater to something more dangerous. . That's the main reason to run elf archers instead, in my book. I really don't like spending more than ~30 pts on fodder; it just takes too many points away from the "meat" in your warband.
There's two ways of thinking of elf archer vs. graypeak. You can say, the graypeak is only 3 more points; or you can say, the graypeak is almost as much as 2 elf archers! ;)
Generally speaking, it's easy to keep the EAs moving around enough to get the +2 bonus, and it lets you spread them out, making it harder to wipe them with area attacks. Also, if your graypeaks are bunched together, and you're in forest/diff. terrain, you face the risk of having multiple archers "pinned down" by one melee attacker. And finally, EAs present your opponent with more of a problem: they don't seem to be worth enough points to hunt down, but they rack up damage if you don't. The graypeaks are not only easier to hunt down since they're all together, they're worth more victory points, so wiping them out is a much easier decision. A couple area attacks sent their way, and your opponent has picked up 32 points!
---------------
One other comment about your band: I don't like putting a Mercant Guard on a Warhorse, personally. Chances are, the merchant guard will die pretty early in the fight, and after that you lose a lot of the value of the warhorse. If you switched out the graypeaks for EAs, you could upgrade that Merchant Guard to a Human Sellsword (more HP, more damage output) with points to spare.
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relientKitten
Sneak
172 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 08/29/2008 5:51 AM |
| *That* makes sense.
I plan to give this band a try sometime, just to see what happens, but I need to find something a little more solid and less map-dependant, methinks, if I want to at least give Mr. State Champion a run for his money. XD
Back to the Excel sheet.
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
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Vrecknidj
Warlord
10427 Posts
United States
| | 08/29/2008 5:09 PM |
| A long time ago, the game was played with a blank map on which the players placed terrain tiles. If one of your tiles was entirely on your opponent's half of the map, then that tile was a victory area for you. Hence the term "tile grabber."
Dave | |
Knowledge Arcana editor issues 5-9, Phoenix Lore Magazine editor, assistant editor for Rite Publishing;
My Trade Thread and My Reference Thread; Winner of WBC IV, IX and XIII; Rule #0: bshugg is always right! | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2000 Posts
Portland OR
| | 08/29/2008 9:54 PM |
| This could work using most of your original build...
TBA
Virt charger
valorous charger
2x merchant guard
3x elf archers
farmer
your choice of 31pt piece: Rikka, DB Defender, Arcadian avenger- each has it's bonus but the DB defender is the only real hitter here.
Rikka provides fast support and healing with the possibility of high dmg. The DB defender has great dmg output, area att, and decent att bonus and is tough in his own right. The AA is my least favorite of the three... eat a farmer or an elf and go to 34-36pts: not many options here. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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tyngfumv
Skirmisher
29 Posts
| | 08/30/2008 6:58 PM |
| | i agree with all of you guys but one thing about it is your own personal style but as far as the elfs vs goblins i like goblins but if you want to win use the elfs sure you can group the goblins together but that makes them easy to kill and the elfs only need to m ove 4 from where they start so you spreed them out activate them and move four while still in line of sight of your target so they get the bonus then next turn have them run back to there original position and do it again | | | |
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Lord_rock
Underboss
2000 Posts
Portland OR
| | 08/31/2008 7:36 AM |
| on elves vs. goblins:
for the price of 2 goblins you get three elves. The elves are mobile dependent while the goblins are mobile restricted in this game where mobility is one of the major keys. And finally, in the current meta there are simply too many burst effects to eat up your bunched archers. | |
Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless | |
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IANKAVIK
Warrior
211 Posts
COLOMBIA
| | 09/02/2008 1:24 PM |
| | I prefer Elf Archer because movement and attack +10 when he moves. and elves can mount the warhorse ... and all the warband became synergist. | | | |
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relientKitten
Sneak
172 Posts
Portland, Oregon
| | 10/09/2008 2:37 PM |
| I played this one as a whole at skirmish on Monday.
Valiant Calvary
Virtuous Charger
TBA
Merchant Guards x2
Cleric of Pelor
Elf Archer x2
Goblin Runner
Farmer
200 points, 10 activations
My opponent was
Elf Conjurer
Elf Arcane Archer
Bralani (the pantless wonder!)
Giant Wagle
Hellwasp
Ravenous Ghoul x2
Ice Mephit
Deathjump Spider x2
I made some movement and placement errors early on that cost me and certainly made more mistakes beyond that, but it held up in the end. I'm not sure who won... (we both were over 200 at the end of a round, I had more points earned, he had more points on the table, we were too tired to look it up and the FLGS was closing... so yeah, we declared a draw).
The cleric's lack of speed compared to the mounteds made placement a bit tricky. I almost want to put him on a warhorse, but not sure where I'd get the points.
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~relientKitten, Champion of Elenriel Annanole, Loremistress
>^..^<
Happy Customers: 17
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Temysry
Sergeant
512 Posts
| | 10/09/2008 8:22 PM |
| Giant Wagle
I'm quite certain I'll never want to see my opponent field one of these at a minis tournament.
Seriously though, the winner is the first person to go over 200, even if it is in the middle of the round. If both people go over at the same time, then it's the person who has the most total points.Â
In fact, there are further tie-breaks beyond this: If points are equal, then whoever has a miniature closest to the centre of the map wins. If both players have minis which are equally close to the centre, then the player who has the mini with the highest point cost closest to the centre wins. If that is also the same, it's a draw (which actually counts as a double-loss in a tournament). I believe there is a provision, however, for the TO to make them play another round even if time has been called in order to break the tie. | |
A Proud Gelatinous Dude
www.gelatinousdudes.com
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