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Subject: Useful Arcadian Hipogriff.

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IANKAVIK
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COLOMBIA

10/06/2008 9:17 AM  
Hi.

The stats of Arcadian Hipogriff is useful against epic miniatures in 500 pts format, so, withou roll dice we can beat a Fire Titan or make a lot of damage to any other evil (the most of the epic miniatures are evil) just in one round.

This could be a good warband to challenge:

Arcadian Hipogriff x 3
Runecarver Eidolon x 1
Hierophant of Seventh Winds x 1
Storm Silverhand x 1
Tomebound Arcanist x 2
Eternal Blade x 1
Mercenary General x 1
Wild Elf Warsinger x 1 (Free)

Map: Tomb of Peregrin Queen or any other open map.

Tactics: Arcadian Hipogriff base attack: +15 vs ac (15 damage) x 2 attacks; Charging +16 vs ac (25 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Elude Chance +26 vs ac (25 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Hierophant Strenght of elements Ability +30 vs ac (25 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Eternal Blade Champion Power +32 vs ac (35 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Divine Bacon Special Power Runecarver +34 vs ac (40 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Smite Evil 10 Arcadian Special Power +34 vs ac (50 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage); Hierophant Champion Power replacing damage Champion POwer from Eterrnal Blade +34 vs ac (60 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage) and flanking +36 vs ac (60 damage) x 2 attacks (WEW bonus damage).

This is an example to beat or make a lot of damage to an evil epic miniature with 36 AC without roll dice just for one Arcadian Hipogriff in one Round... another Arcadian can make the rest of damage.

If the stats won´t change this miniature would have a very good future. Is very playable.... And just look the rest of the warband support: TBA x 2, Eternal Blade, Storm Silverhand and Runecarver Eidolon, just for be mencioned.

What do you think about it?

Lord_rock
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Portland OR

10/06/2008 9:52 AM  
there are probably better riders that can make use of the natural 10 roll: dragonkith, skull cleave, mighty blademaster... The list for good martial pieces is long.

Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

IANKAVIK
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COLOMBIA

10/06/2008 10:25 AM  
Posted By Lord_rock on 10/06/2008 9:52 AM
there are probably better riders that can make use of the natural 10 roll: dragonkith, skull cleave, mighty blademaster... The list for good martial pieces is long.
Ok, but first: Mighty and Skull are Fighter (no martial). Second: Tell me, what martial miniature can make 2 attacks and could arise +34 vs ac with all the damage and attack bonuses?


Lord_rock
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Portland OR

10/06/2008 11:08 AM  
hmm... See what I get for posting at work...

Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

Temysry
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10/06/2008 11:14 AM  

First off, the Arcadian Hippogriff cannot benefit from the +4 attack of the Hot7W nor the +20 damage boost since it is a "magical beast" rather than a "beast".

With respect to riders, if you really wanted to, you could get Tordek up to auto-hitting AC34 with a flank - even in 200 points.  You can get him up to 36 if you felt like it with the Militia Archer who could give him another +2 to attack against anything high enough level to even comes close to AC that high.  Since he has cleave, he can often make two attacks a round as well.  The amount of damage isn't quite as high, but he's also quite a bit sturdier.  If you're serious about playing the Hippogriff in Epic then you'll have to worry about keeping it alive.  Dual Cyclones (and many other builds) will kill it before it has a chance to do anything.

I do think, however, that this piece will see some play if the Vintage format takes off.


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IANKAVIK
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COLOMBIA

10/06/2008 1:08 PM  
Posted By Temysry on 10/06/2008 11:14 AM

First off, the Arcadian Hippogriff cannot benefit from the +4 attack of the Hot7W nor the +20 damage boost since it is a "magical beast" rather than a "beast".

With respect to riders, if you really wanted to, you could get Tordek up to auto-hitting AC34 with a flank - even in 200 points.  You can get him up to 36 if you felt like it with the Militia Archer who could give him another +2 to attack against anything high enough level to even comes close to AC that high.  Since he has cleave, he can often make two attacks a round as well.  The amount of damage isn't quite as high, but he's also quite a bit sturdier.  If you're serious about playing the Hippogriff in Epic then you'll have to worry about keeping it alive.  Dual Cyclones (and many other builds) will kill it before it has a chance to do anything.

I do think, however, that this piece will see some play if the Vintage format takes off.


Hi.

Please show me where magical beasts are excluded from Hot 7w ability, because neither errata nor rules excludes it!!!

batizcar
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10/06/2008 2:47 PM  
the abilitie of the hierophant of the +4 includes beast and magic beast that it was not from V1

batizcar
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10/06/2008 2:56 PM  
With the arcadian I prefer using the merchat guard or the hellwasp for recistir the attaks and being able to become detached without causing attacks of opportunity and returning to charge

Temysry
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10/06/2008 3:10 PM  
Posted By IANKAVIK on 10/06/2008 1:08 PM

Hi.

Please show me where magical beasts are excluded from Hot 7w ability, because neither errata nor rules excludes it!!!


It's right on the card.  It says "Beast and Elemental allies...".  Magical Beast is a different keyword.

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Dordledum
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Netherlands

10/07/2008 2:19 AM  
just like half-elves aren't elves, neither are drow, who are fey now...

D.

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IANKAVIK
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COLOMBIA

10/07/2008 6:40 AM  
Posted By Temysry on 10/06/2008 3:10 PM
Posted By IANKAVIK on 10/06/2008 1:08 PM

Hi.

Please show me where magical beasts are excluded from Hot 7w ability, because neither errata nor rules excludes it!!!


It's right on the card.  It says "Beast and Elemental allies...".  Magical Beast is a different keyword.

It doesn´t convice me. Arcadian Hipogriff have two keywords: magical and beast and is so different from half-elf (non pure breed). Moreover, there isn´t an errata from Hierophant saying :"magical beast are excluded from this ability" so, magical beast remain being included.

Dordledum
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Netherlands

10/07/2008 7:25 AM  
It has been confirmed by wizard reps over and over again, that it works like this. Magical beasts do not count as beasts.0i'm sorry if you won't be convinced, just try it on a major tournament and you'll see.

D.

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batizcar
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10/07/2008 8:04 AM  
ok than follow this idea

half-elf are not a elf
dragonborns are not dragons

But does not have logic Magic it is a characteristic of the race since as evil, good, mounted or now it turns out that without a race For example that the duergar champion is of race duergar for that already they took the dwarf thing from him in the card

Good it to my seem this very very bad,the magic it does not take from him that after-taste of being a beast And in the manuals of V1 the beast and the magical beast are the same race and now for that not In the manual of dungeons and dread they did not extract explanation of the races, and not in FAQ like that now do not try to change them only for they want

if dont make a manual of races for V2 the correct is used like V1

IANKAVIK
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COLOMBIA

10/07/2008 8:59 AM  

I agree. And maybe, i want to say this: if moderator of this forum have the opportunity to suggest changes in WoTC, he would express something related to this item, because just for the fact that in major tournaments (like in Netherland) magical beast aren´t considered beasts it doesn´t means that could be comprehensive for the rest of countries in the world.

It must be clarified in an errata. All the things that you don´t write doesn´t exist!!!!

However. Aplying that concept: "beasts are different from magical beasts", i modified my warband.

What is my point? Using a low cost miniature or maybe two, Arcadian Hipogriff, have the chance to destroy a higher cost Miniature just like Doresain, VID, Cyclone, Fire Titan Rider, having the rest of your warband reserved for a prolongated melee skirmish.

This is the new warband:

Arcadian Hipogriff x 2
Tomebound Arcanist x 1
Drizzt, Drow Ranger x 1
Runecarver Eidolon x 1
Storm Silverhand x 1
Wild Elf Warsinger x 1
Ryld Argith x 1
Human Cleric of Bahamut x 1
Mercenary General x 1
Militia Archer x 1 (Free)

Map... Blue Dragon lairs, Tomb of Peregrin Queen or another open map.

The Strategy... the same explained before... maybe a double area attack trying to confuse some miniatures to neutralize potential attacks. Then, Arcadian, without rolling dice make a lot of damage and so on.


Temysry
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10/07/2008 10:57 AM  
Posted By IANKAVIK on 10/07/2008 8:59 AM

It must be clarified in an errata. All the things that you don´t write doesn´t exist!!!!



This is exactly why there is no errata needed.  If you notice on the cards, each keyword is seperated by a small circle.  There is no seperation between "magical" and "beast" which is why "magical beast" is a single keyword - just like "half-elf" as you mention above.

Anyway - the revised band (which only adds up to 470, btw) still suffers from the same problem as before.  Without bodyguards on an open map, most of your warband will be dead before you can make any attacks.  Let's say you win initiative and get your first choice of Blue Dragon Lair against a band with two cyclones.  They will set up in the protected start areas and you will now get at most 2 activations before they're able to drop both sight-range bombs (lightning storms) on your start area.  Each one is at +23 vs DEF(Ref) for 40 damage.  That means anything with at most 80 hp and DEF(Ref) 25 will be dead as long as he doesn't roll a 1.  The only pieces in your warband that would survive would be Drizzt and Storm (thanks to being immune to lightning).

It isn't just Cyclones, either.  EB boosted Ice Devils would be just as bad, not to mention all the buffs you could give to an Elminster/Raistlin band making the bulk of your band helpless.  Maybe it's just me, but I can't see it working in Epic.

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Lord_rock
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Portland OR

10/07/2008 11:59 AM  
remember back in 1.0 when they had to errata some rules because the word "Orc" appears on any sORCerer card? Yah I's kinda like that but even less confusing because of the comma.

Rock Bottom Pricing:
Arcane Archer 30, Centaur Hero 67, Human Cleric of Bane 25, Gold Champion 34, Death Knight 52, Goblin Blackblade 9, Silentwolf Goblin 7, Orc Raider 10, Dwarf axefighter 9, Healer 9, Thaskor 65, Aspect of Demogorgon 71, Ogre 9, Fire Giant 79, Human Wanderer 7, Drunken Master 18, Barghest 12, Longstider Barbarian 27, Longtooth Barbarian 22, Frost Giant 76, Ravenous Vampire 42, Large Earth Elemental: priceless

batizcar
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10/08/2008 11:30 AM  
and follow the idea

if dont exist any rules or manuals or FAQ for races in V2, and if take the text of cards,

the constructs and plats can recive and stay stund and confused, because the cards of this races dont mencioned

Benefit does not exist for any race

and the rules of V1 dont aply for V2
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